Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 10

[cakeorwine]

That filled up quick

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4497950-Ukraine-invasion-discussion-thread-part-9

@DGRossetti

The Ukrainian MP on R4 made a fair point ...

"WW3 has already started. It's just a question of choosing when to join in."

WW2 did not start in 1939.

It's very possible but I also feel Ukraine are (quite rightly) desperate for more western support and will do anything to try and negotiate it e.g no fly zone. Best way to convince this to happen is to say it's already begun.

Think we need to try and all stay level headed

[quote Travelledtheworld]@jgw1 WTF ?[/quote]
@jgw1 does a fantastic line in sarcasm and dry wit. The problem is, we live in such a mad world, it's not always obvious that s/he is teasing us.

Re the bio weapons claim, perhaps Russia are spreading this rumour so they can use bio weapons and blame it on the US

We have a massive solar farm (biggest in the U.K.) being planned near us. There is widespread opposition to it from the councils and MPs concerned as well as local people but I think given current events it is likely to get approval despite the fact that it will obliterate hundreds of acres of prime agricultural land that would be better used to actually help make us more self sufficient.

Solar farms are a fucking ridiculous idea and waste of precious rescources. I have a whooping great roof and willingness to put panels on it. I know the figures friends who got great subsidies when they got theirs put on.

With energy costs shooting up, there are lots and lots of opportunities and ideas for both helping people and this being worth investing in.

Whats currently putting us off is two things - we'd maybe like to extend upwards so would want to do it at the same time, and the initial outlay on panels. But if energy prices are going to go through the roof, then the economics change somewhat.

The nickel market being suspended yesterday was a good sign of problems too though; electric cars need nickel as a crucial component. So demand will be there, but supply of nickel is going to be problematic. Batteries. Its going to be all about batteries.

On a personal level, I do think that perhaps DH and I will need to have a good think about this.

(Btw if anyone is something of a nerd, theres a program on iplayer about the science of sewage atm. One of the things the UK and EU have been heavily investing in, is using sewage as a power source. The project is actually nearing completion - as in about to start going into some sort of first role out in the market stage. This is another thing I think we will see a lot more in. But this is again about batteries).

Ironically the whole damn idea of net zero was just about to be dropped by the Tories. It was actually a Johnson pet project and was about to get effectively overruled by the party for being 'too progressive' as the 'country can't afford it'. That narrative is about to suddenly change amongst those who were most against it, and they will be the ones saying we can't afford not to. (I'm looking at you Sunak).

This is a revolutionary moment; necessity of politics is about to drive a massive economic change on green iniatives. It can not be avoided.

@jgw1 does a fantastic line in sarcasm and dry wit. The problem is, we live in such a mad world, it's not always obvious that s/he is teasing us.

I was not teasing. I was imagining the line of reasoning that may be going on in the Kremlin.

@RedToothBrush

Btw, green issues are going to shoot RIGHT up the agenda as also being security led issues.

I can see money getting poured into anything that makes us more self sufficient and less dependant on others who supply fuel.

Patrotic Green Campaigns are coming your way soon...

Yep. I said at the start of this when Russia threatened to turn the gas off that Putin would do more for the Green agenda than COP 26.

It will be ironic if we manage to hit our climate change targets because of an economic war with Russia.

You can't make this shit up.

[quote jgw1]**@jgw1 does a fantastic line in sarcasm and dry wit. The problem is, we live in such a mad world, it's not always obvious that s/he is teasing us.

I was not teasing. I was imagining the line of reasoning that may be going on in the Kremlin.[/quote]
And you are scarily good at it...

@DGRossetti I don’t agree, I don’t see this as ww3.

@thereisonlyoneofme

Re the bio weapons claim, perhaps Russia are spreading this rumour so they can use bio weapons and blame it on the US

Russia is not going to use biological weapons, I really want to reassure people on this point

The reason countries don't use biological weapons in modern warfare is that they are not controllable. If Russia released some kind of biological weapon in Ukraine, it would also infect their own soldiers and spread into Russia. There is also the deterrent that, in practice, the major powers have the position that the use of biological weapons is equivalent to nuclear use in terms of WMDs.

The Guardian reports Ben Wallace is to make a statement on Ukraine in HoC. Any ideas what this might be?

[quote Jisforjelly]@DGRossetti I don’t agree, I don’t see this as ww3.[/quote]
There is a war. The world is involved.

Be curious to know what more you need, really.

I also don't think WW3 has started.

If anything, it is a return to the Cold War.

And you are scarily good at it...

Thank you, most kind of you to say so.

I think it is wrong to say that Putin is misleading his people, he genuinely believes what he is saying.

There are some similarities with Boris who genuinely believes that he was at work at what everyone else would call a party.

Solar farms are a fucking ridiculous idea and waste of precious rescources. I have a whooping great roof and willingness to put panels on it. I know the figures friends who got great subsidies when they got theirs put on.

It's far more efficient to heat water from solar power than make electricity. However, as I was told several times when I worked in the energy sector: renewables aren't about generating energy. They are about generating money.

@MagicFox

The Guardian reports Ben Wallace is to make a statement on Ukraine in HoC. Any ideas what this might be?

Banning of Russian planes announced this morning?

And I think Ukraine is the victim in a commodity conflict and a readjustment of super powers worldwide.
I don’t believe in ideology wars (I believe that is what they sell to the common man), I believe most wars are fundamentally capital wars between the rich and powerful. More capital = more power. Hence the US trying to run Russia’s capital right down, but not sure how successful this will be.

Yep. I said at the start of this when Russia threatened to turn the gas off that Putin would do more for the Green agenda than COP 26.

It will be ironic if we manage to hit our climate change targets because of an economic war with Russia.

Hard change like this is more likely to come about due to a forced situation.

I’m not surprised. Any change will take a strong impetus.

Look at how strong the impetus from Covid was and how we’re good at reverting once the pressure is off. It takes much more than good will alone.

Is it just me (awaits a flurry of links) or is the movement of millions of people across Europe in relation to Covid just not a thing anymore ?

Our rugby club has installed solar panels. They're great at heating water when it's not required but because they've not yet been able to get the batteries, not much more than that

Re WW3 I don’t think it’s here yet

I heard the Ukrainian on R4 but I’d probably say the same in their situation

@DGRossetti

Is it just me (awaits a flurry of links) or is the movement of millions of people across Europe in relation to Covid just not a thing anymore ?

Not sure what you mean?

I think she means a mutated Covid strain due to overcrowding and bad sanitary conditions etc amongst exhausted refugees.
I too was thinking this the other day.

@DGRossetti no, because they’re not involved in a military capacity. I don’t see it as a world war until then. Hopefully doesn’t come to that.
There are a lot of people around at the moment who seem intent on glorifying war and the west’s role in this. I think there a big mistake.
As the other poster has said, it’s more like a Cold War scenario.

With Zelenskey claims about being ready to compromise on crimea and Dombas and the sense he doesn't fancy joining Nato anymore. Mixed with the high keel talks tomo between foreign ministers in Turkey. Is this our best chance of some sort of negotiated peace tomorrow?

@DGRossetti no, because they’re not involved in a military capacity. I don’t see it as a world war until then. Hopefully doesn’t come to that.

Presumably Switzerland and Spain don't need to teach WW2 then ?

The assumption WW2 started in 1939 is Anglocentric and offensive (if you're Austrian, or Czech) to say the least.