Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 9

[cakeorwine]

Because MN only allows 1000 posts and this is fast moving

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4496974-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-8

Youngsters in Moscow having their phones searched by police

twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1500458582902460420?s=20&t=Tf4MvxLJNuLyLpgQQbFdGQ

@TheSillyMastiff

Is it that the deceit and lies about Russia's military force has now become apparent, and NATO is ready to impose itself as the biggest military might in the northern hemisphere, untouchable, well armed and well funded.

I doubt it myself. Isn't it more that over the last 15 years NATO has been quietly seen as less relevant generally, and with this sudden eruption of a vicious war, we are reminded that actually a defensive pact is really rather a good idea?

I do wonder if without NATO's existance, if Putin would have moved sooner to take over a smaller country. If he nibbled away at country after country, with a disarmed Germany he could have even considered invading there once the smaller countries were taken over - unless the pact existed.

Assuming that he genuinely wants Russia to hold all the USSR's territories, East Germany was very much part of that. The Wall fell when he was stationed in Dresden and he took it extremely hard that Russia did not back up Erich Honecker's successors, can't remember who that was now.

I saw a report on the news yesterday that the Ukraine pilots have already been trained to fly planes like the ones Poland have so not a problem with who flies them

I remember Kate Adie on the television. I preferred Anneka Rice though, she seemed very brave to my ten year old self!

Russia is already making threats that providing planes or letting them fly from NATO airfields will be an act of war against Russia

What I think people aren't talking about enough is Putin's links with the Russian Orthodox Church. I think this is genuinely a holy war for him as well as an ideological one, and holy wars make people do truly insane things.

The news about the polish/US fighter jets, does anyone think Russia will see it as an attack on them from NATO and unleash WW3?

@MumbleCrumbs

What I think people aren't talking about enough is Putin's links with the Russian Orthodox Church. I think this is genuinely a holy war for him as well as an ideological one, and holy wars make people do truly insane things.

I did allude to it upthread, and would welcome a discussion about the politics of this.

@Jisforjelly

The news about the polish/US fighter jets, does anyone think Russia will see it as an attack on them from NATO and unleash WW3?

No

Here is is orthodox strong man Tsar Imperial. No hiding in a fridge for him.

@Jisforjelly

The news about the polish/US fighter jets, does anyone think Russia will see it as an attack on them from NATO and unleash WW3?

Yes - I think that's exactly how they will spin it in the Russian media.

Their backs are against the wall.

As to if they respond to it in a military capacity who knows?

@Jisforjelly

The news about the polish/US fighter jets, does anyone think Russia will see it as an attack on them from NATO and unleash WW3?

I presume Russia have seen the news about the jets and that is why they have released a statement but it is very specifically worded.

I dunno. Putin has been in power for a very long time. Up until now, he's been reasonably moderate on the war generating front - given his wide dictatorship powers. Ukraine is all ghastly, but Russia hasn't been at war with a different country every year for the last fifty. Not sure what has changed, but I really doubt he'd go nuclear - especially after committing so much in the way of conventional forces.

@Jisforjelly

The news about the polish/US fighter jets, does anyone think Russia will see it as an attack on them from NATO and unleash WW3?

I also saw in a article that Poland want to be very careful how they approach this as it’s not per NATO and they do not want to anger Putin

@Jisforjelly

The news about the polish/US fighter jets, does anyone think Russia will see it as an attack on them from NATO and unleash WW3?

What would that like?

Russia invades a NATO country.
NATO fights back

I can't imagine any nuclear weapons being used. Because Putin and his commanders know what that would mean.

What is scary (to me anyway) is that they declared they could nuke all NATO states at once leaving no retaliation for them

A few things about refugees in Germany which are a tiny bit less bleak:
I live in Berlin, near the main railway station. According to newspapers here, as well as what one can see for oneself near the station, there are a lot more refugees arriving than the numbers mentioned so far on this thread: over 10 000 a day just by train. Many of these haven't been registered yet which is why the official number is lower (facilities have been set up over this last weekend to handle new arrivals directly at the starion and should be ready to function from tomorrow onwards). The Deutsche Bahn is running nine extra trains per day from the Polish border to Berlin at the moment (specially for refugees and they are of course not required to pay.) The number of trains will probably be increased. For those who want it, onward free travel is provided to other German cities. They are intending to provide bus services directly to other German cities directly from the border starting tomorrow.
At the station they were/are also providing bus transport to Paris for free for those who want it.
Services are provided by official organizations both private and from the federal government (I saw a lot of people from the Technisches Hilfswerk, which is a federal organization.) There are huge numbers of police on hand at the station, as well as at the long-distance bus station, where many refugees are also arriving, partly to look out for potential predators. Temporary housing and medical services are organized, and schools are already setting up what they call "welcome classes" for children (basically classes to teach German as fast as possible so the kids can continue their education).
The situation is terrible for these people, but at least German went through all this a few years back with the refugees from Syria and has learned better how to deal with things.

@PestorPeston

Anyone remember when it was Kate Adie who use to get sent to all the war zones?

You youngsters..it was “I counted them all out…,” Brian Hanrahan in my day.

All of them very brave though, regardless of the era..

@Thewayshetalks

What is scary (to me anyway) is that they declared they could nuke all NATO states at once leaving no retaliation for them

That's not how it works.

We have a nuclear defence system designed for retaliation.

I feel even more scared now.

@Thewayshetalks

What is scary (to me anyway) is that they declared they could nuke all NATO states at once leaving no retaliation for them

It’s scary however it’s done but suitably equipped NATO nations would be able to retaliate.

twitter.com/PremierRP_en/status/1500345167211114497

‼️FAKE NEWS‼️
Unfortunately you are spreading misinformation with quotation from 27/02/22.

Poland won't send its fighter jets to #Ukraine as well as allow to use its airports. We significantly help in many other areas.

@Justanotherlurker

twitter.com/PremierRP_en/status/1500345167211114497

‼️FAKE NEWS‼️
Unfortunately you are spreading misinformation with quotation from 27/02/22.

Poland won't send its fighter jets to #Ukraine as well as allow to use its airports. We significantly help in many other areas.

This was reported today by Poland and USA

Marking my spot I’ve been out all day and this moves fast!

Place-marking too, keep up the good work everyone!