Page 8 | The Invasion is ongoing...Part 8

SchadenfreudePersonified · 05/03/2022 08:41

@FatFredsFriedEgg

Apropos of nothing, my attention was taken on a twitter thread earlier by a very pro-Russian posting in very good English. The poster had only 47 followers and wasn't particularly prolific in their posts. Some posts on London restaurants, art, art galleries etc.

I clicked back to 2016 and they were a prolific 'THIS IS OUR ENGLAND' etc. Brexit poster. Intrigued I clicked back further and there were multiple tweets 'establishing their credentials', many of them in Russian, going back to 2013.

This is a 9 year-old account set up to undermine UK public opinion and therefore democracy. It's clear that the same sort of accounts could operate on Mumsnet - years of innocuous posts about breastfeeding or the annoying STBXH and then having established a backstory the misinformation campaigns can start...

Absolutely!

They play the long game.

While our so-called govt never [lans more than 20 minutes ahead, the Russians and Chinese look well into the future.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 05/03/2022 08:42

*plans

RedToothBrush · 05/03/2022 08:42

EMPR. MEDIA @euromaidanPR
Ukraine agreed with the Red Cross and russian terrorists humanitarian corridors in Volnovaha & Mariupol since 09:00am today; evacuation of women & children is planned:up to 200,000ppl in Volmovaha & 15,000ppl in Mariupol; Ukraine officials call russian side to "ceasefire" regime

Confirmed from the Ukrainian side.

RedToothBrush · 05/03/2022 08:43

Evacuation. Then level the cities.

LaDoIceVita · 05/03/2022 08:44

There was an article linked to in one of the early threads about the UNSC Veto. A legal case could be brought on the basis that The Russian Federation should not have inherited the seat of the USSR but that would probably take years and could also have future implications, e.g. who would get the UK's seat if the Union was dissolved. I don't see the position changing so the the UN has it's hands well and truly tied.

RedToothBrush · 05/03/2022 08:45

Paypal potted in Russia now.

RedToothBrush · 05/03/2022 08:47

www.itv.com/news/2022-03-05/the-doctors-in-ukraine-risking-their-own-lives-every-day-to-save-others
The doctors in Ukraine risking their own lives every day to save the lives of others

Worth reflecting on medics who will stay in those places to be evacuated...

ClaudineClare · 05/03/2022 08:48

Wow these threads fill up fast.

I just heard the most moving and terrible story on R4. The reporter was told it by a woman who was sheltering underground next to her.

The woman's elderly father lives in a suburb near the border with Belarus. She described how he watched from his window as Russian troops moved into his village on their way to Kyiv.

A week ago, the soldiers occupied his house. At some point they forced him down into the basement. While he was down there he he heard terrifying noises.

Yesterday he left his basement, came up for air.

All he saw was sky.

His house was gone, the noises he had heard were the sound of his house being destroyed above his head. The houses next to him were on fire.

If Russia wins this war what exactly are they going to do with Ukraine if they have reduced most of it to smoking ruins?

I am not a violent person, but I do hope Putin meets a nasty end. Hopefully involving a rope, a lamppost and the hands of his own people.

ClaudineClare · 05/03/2022 08:51

It's clear that the same sort of accounts could operate on Mumsnet - years of innocuous posts about breastfeeding or the annoying STBXH and then having established a backstory the misinformation campaigns can start...

Totally. This happened with threads about the vaccines too, I am certain.

SpongeCake23 · 05/03/2022 08:52

Can I ask why people keep saying this is world war three? How can it be when the world isn’t directly involved? Sorry if I sound dim but I don’t understand.

RedToothBrush · 05/03/2022 08:53

www.ft.com/content/367fffa1-0ba8-418d-ba05-e63c70cc0c1b
Letter from Ukraine: the language of war
A leading Ukrainian writer recalls the Russian assault on his home near Kyiv — and asks what artists should do in wartime

FT free to read.

Thought provoking about how Apocalypse now just happened in a little town near the airport.

notimagain · 05/03/2022 08:54

@Ohmnomnom

I'm worried what will happen after the citizens have been evacuated. Will Russia use even larger bombs/weapons in those areas?

Quite probably..

It appears that the Russian tactics so far haven’t been a spectacular success and they have been taking casualties at an unsustainable level.

The worry has always been they would revert to their more traditional method of flattening built up areas before sending in ground forces…this might be the start of a change towards such methods.

Newrunner29 · 05/03/2022 08:55

@ClaudineClare

It's clear that the same sort of accounts could operate on Mumsnet - years of innocuous posts about breastfeeding or the annoying STBXH and then having established a backstory the misinformation campaigns can start...

Totally. This happened with threads about the vaccines too, I am certain.

For years I've wondered if mm has Russian bots, I'm not so sure I definitely know fb and twitter have . I don't think the audience is wide reaching enough

Taytocrisps · 05/03/2022 08:55

@SpongeCake23 it's not world war three at present but it has the potential to become a world war.

Spongecake23 · 05/03/2022 09:00

@Taytocrisps how exactly? If NATO don’t get involved?

cakeorwine · 05/03/2022 09:00

A slightly alarming story on links with far right people in the US (and maybe other Western countries) and an admiration for his strong arm approaches to cancel culture, Liberals, LGBT issues...

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/05/putin-ukraine-invasion-white-nationalists-far-right

RedToothBrush · 05/03/2022 09:00

@SpongeCake23

Can I ask why people keep saying this is world war three? How can it be when the world isn’t directly involved? Sorry if I sound dim but I don’t understand.

Hybrid warfare. Its a proxy war. We are all involved. Sanctions. Disinformation. Supply of goods.

The idea of WWIII is how you eventually get sucked in more and more, or one party finally decides it wont tolerate the supply of arms and steps over the NATO border.

Military action and a declaration of war didn't start when Austria was annexed or tanks first rolled east. Thats the suggestion. We are still at the point before the west accepts wider war can not be avoided but first combat has already started.

The declaration of WWIII is effectively a technically not reached but war has already commenced and cannot be halted.

Thats the theory.

What the West is hoping is that Ukraine will be a meat grinder and will stop putin.

It may just slow him and allow for consolidation at home, thus strengthening his hand later. Which makes for an all together worse conflict in the longer term.

We don't really know which is the likely outcome at this stage.

Both are possible.

ClaudineClare · 05/03/2022 09:01

Newrunner29 when the AZ vaccine first started to be administered , there was an veritable explosion of threads expressing "concern" and spreading fear about safety. Many of the posters who started those threads have since vanished.

There are bots of all kinds on MN.

bluetongue · 05/03/2022 09:01

I’m conflicted about how much to read / watch about this conflict. It’s horrifying and fascinating at the same time but doomscrolling is bad for my mental heath.

I’ve been reading on Polish reddit about how much help ordinary citizens there are giving to Ukrainian refugees including taking them into their homes. It’s heartwarming.

Febrier · 05/03/2022 09:01

I am surprised at the "women and children" aspect in this day and age. Why are abled-bodied women permitted to leave but men compelled by law to stay? If you don't have children, could you leave your men behind?

borntobequiet · 05/03/2022 09:04

@SpongeCake23

Can I ask why people keep saying this is world war three? How can it be when the world isn’t directly involved? Sorry if I sound dim but I don’t understand.

It depends on how you define a war. If you include intelligence operations, cyber operations, interference in smaller ground wars, the capture of political parties via corruption and manipulation and the infiltration of media and social media outlets, this war between Putin and the West has being going on for a while.

ClaudineClare · 05/03/2022 09:04

bluetongue I think focussing on the good that people are doing helps dilute the horror.

borntobequiet · 05/03/2022 09:04

And everything is global nowadays via the Internet.

cakeorwine · 05/03/2022 09:10

I am surprised that we aren't seeing satellite images of the destroyed cities. No doubt Putin would dismiss them as fake and it would be distressing to see but that would put even more pressure on Governments to act.

I do wonder how much satellite and other intelligence is being supplied to the Ukrainians?

Thewiseoneincognito · 05/03/2022 09:10

Most of the big luxury fashion retailers have now paused operations in Russia since yesterday. Most likely due to the impacts of a collapsed Rubel and difficulties supplying their stores rather than a bold ethical ‘show of solidarity’, but it’s a good move nevertheless.

Unlike Covid closures when online shopping and mail orders were still being done behind closed doors, this time the Russian monied elite are not going to have access to the luxury items they love to purchase.

I would be curious to know how many people this move will effect, particularly with the economic inequality there between the rich and poor.