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The Invasion is ongoing...Part 6

999 replies

Damnloginpopup · 02/03/2022 20:49

Things are ramping up. No end in site as yet.

Link to thread 5 here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4494173-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-5?pg=1

OP posts:
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12
TellMeMoreHellebore · 03/03/2022 19:01

Usmanov definitely rings a bell

ChimChimeny · 03/03/2022 19:01

@Tigersonvaseline

Maybe Ukraine can be supplied with more jets

Zelensky asked for some today I think, hopefully someone has some spares they can send

Billandben444 · 03/03/2022 19:01

I've just watched the 6pm BBC news. They had a section on Berlin families welcoming refugees into their homes - they stood at railway stations with placards saying how large a family they could take and how delighted they were to accommodate them. Every single family on that train was 'taken home'. It made me cry.

jgw1 · 03/03/2022 19:02

So Putin says that all is going to plan in the special military operation.

Lets pretend that we believe him.

What a woeful military plan he has come up with.

jm901928 · 03/03/2022 19:03

I would treat the posts about nuclear war in the same way as the early posts about how covid was going to lead to rioti9ng ane a total breakdown in law and order,
They are either bots, pro Russian bloggers, or very anxious people. If they are anxious I feel sorry for them, but their fears are not realistic

Yea those, or Nobel Peace Prize winners 😂:

www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/ewropej/115358/novaya_gazeta_editor_nuclear_response_in_russian_aggression_is_real_threat

Personally I don’t think you can seriously deny that there is a higher chance of it happening than there was even 3 months ago, even if it is still among the unlikely outcomes.

But I also think there’s crap all point in worrying about it because there’s precisely zero to be done if it did happen, and nothing any of us could do to stop it anyway.

Yeahthat · 03/03/2022 19:07

@katem98

Remember also that Putin himself will not launch nuclear weapons. There's a process via which he would send launch orders to the central military command.

At present, Putin's military commanders, politicians etc won't defy him for fear of imprisonment or assassination.

However, if he were to issue an order, which were it to be fulfilled would guarantee not only your own death, but that of your family, and the total destruction of your country and the wider world?

Surely then the calculation changes - at that point, they have nothing to lose anyway. They may as well revolt.

I don't say that to be flippant about the fact that the danger is real, nor should it detract from the fact that ultimately multilateral disarmament must be the goal.

DrBlackbird · 03/03/2022 19:11

…that people would try to suppress it

No, you misunderstand me. Im not trying to suppress anything. I was angry that some posters seemed to blame Ukraine/NATO/EU/US/the west for having a war inflicted on it and thousands of innocent people dying.

However, this is an open forum so obviously you post what you want.

Inkanta · 03/03/2022 19:16

Putin needs to be stopped soon. This is pretty much WW3 - we are in denial to think otherwise.

MakeUsACuppa · 03/03/2022 19:20

I'm torn between thinking hoping it's all going wrong and Putin didn't factor in that Ukraine would not roll over. Or it's all part of his plan and will bring in the 'big guns' soon.

Although the amount of opposition must surely be making the people around him wonder what the fuck they are doing. I can't believe they are all as deluded as him.

workisnotawolf · 03/03/2022 19:20

I am not worried about nuclear war or “invasion” of NATO territory but I am worried about subversive attacks that technically are an “armed attack” for the purposes of the NATO treaty. I am worried that Putin will want to undermine NATO in this way. I don’t have any sources, just my personal concern. For example, a “stray” missile on a passenger aircraft or vessel etc. A stray missile into Poland. What is NATO doing behind the scenes to prepare for this kind of thing? In addition, what about other worldwide terrorist forces which usually come along in wars and want to undermine stability. Could they also wreak further havoc?

www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm

Article 5

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security .

Article 6 1

For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:

on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.

yoolia · 03/03/2022 19:20

This is pretty much WW3

No it isn't.

Yeahthat · 03/03/2022 19:20

@DrBlackbird

No one's done this, although I can't really be bothered going over it again.

But I believe that you yourself have argued that states act in their own self-interest and project their power against other nations to the extent that they can.

If you believe this, then it seems reasonable to use this principle to reduce the chance of armed conflict - in one instance, by maintaining buffer zones between historic rivals and what they perceive as hostile alliances.

That's not blaming anyone for having a war of aggression inflicted on them.

ParsleySageRosemary · 03/03/2022 19:21

3 months ago, even 1 month ago, we didn’t think Putin would invade at all. I don’t know if he would press the button or not. I do know that I am getting more angry about the situation, not less. I hope these humanitarian corridors open: if not perhaps military people really need to start coming up with plans to secure a western part of Ukraine.

EezyOozy · 03/03/2022 19:22

@Billandben444 I missed it, I would love to see that x

MarshaBradyo · 03/03/2022 19:22

@Inkanta

Putin needs to be stopped soon. This is pretty much WW3 - we are in denial to think otherwise.
I don’t agree, there’s no denial it’s not WW3 (hopefully won’t be)
theyhavenothingbuttheaudacity · 03/03/2022 19:22

@GrandRapids

Also I don't think NATO is going to be influenced by Piers Morgan or any other celebrity bluster for that matter!
Lol yeah okay Piers maybe you could stage some fake photos of nato shooting down fighter jets if you want though?
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 03/03/2022 19:24

@Inkanta

Putin needs to be stopped soon. This is pretty much WW3 - we are in denial to think otherwise.
We're certainly entering a Cold War 2: I'd hope that wiser counsels prevail with respect to a prelude to the broader dispute of WW3.
MarshaBradyo · 03/03/2022 19:24

[quote Yeahthat]@DrBlackbird

No one's done this, although I can't really be bothered going over it again.

But I believe that you yourself have argued that states act in their own self-interest and project their power against other nations to the extent that they can.

If you believe this, then it seems reasonable to use this principle to reduce the chance of armed conflict - in one instance, by maintaining buffer zones between historic rivals and what they perceive as hostile alliances.

That's not blaming anyone for having a war of aggression inflicted on them.[/quote]
Do you think there’s a chance Putin would still be the aggressor and take Ukraine without their wanting to be in NATO?

Because he seems convinced it’s his right

yoolia · 03/03/2022 19:24

3 months ago, even 1 month ago, we didn’t think Putin would invade at all.

We did. American intelligence has been telling us that for ages.

FatFucker · 03/03/2022 19:24

Anyone hazard guess where the oligarchs have gone. Have they gone home to Russia? Or are they in the Maldives and UAE?

Is there any left in the UK or USA?

There's a great Twitter account called Russian Oligarch Jets that lists all their private jet flights.

That obviously doesn't mean the oligarch is on it, but very interesting nonetheless!

NebbiaZanzare · 03/03/2022 19:25

[quote katem98]@holliem91 I also have young children and feel guilty giving them life. Not sleeping and have lost a whole stone in weight since last week. It's just bloody awful and I'm heartbroken for the whole world. Who would've thought that this would be happening in 2022 after the recent Covid shitshow.

One thing that has been comforting is that every time someone posts something on this thread that is comforting and reassuring, I screenshot it and look back on them when I'm feeling anxious. [/quote]
Oh love. My boy was toddling in our courtyard in Milan on 9/11.

Nobody knew what was going to happen next. I looked at him and thought what the hell have I done bringing you into this shitstorm of a world. So I have a reasonable idea of what you are feeling.

Now DS is 21 and I was in a total state yesterday because he’s fighting age. And quite a lot of people who probably don’t have young adult male children seemed all determined to make WWIII officially on.

My sister was my rock then and now. She said more or less the same thing yesterday that she did when he was tiny. It’s along the lines of ..you’ve got him safe & sound right now. Enjoy him now. Turn it all off, cos if the worst is coming it will happen without or without your eyeballs on it. Spend now with him and not the news. Soak up all the tiny human wonderfulness. Make his right now warm, fun and full of love, becuase that is the one thing you do have control over and it’s the only thing he wants and needs from you.

She was right. Today has been a lot better.

< big fat hug >

ClaudineClare · 03/03/2022 19:27

@Inkanta

Putin needs to be stopped soon. This is pretty much WW3 - we are in denial to think otherwise.
There have been many wars since WW2 that haven't developed into WW3. Why do you think this one might? I agree with pp that we may now be in Cold War 2, though.
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 03/03/2022 19:27

@yoolia

3 months ago, even 1 month ago, we didn’t think Putin would invade at all.

We did. American intelligence has been telling us that for ages.

Quite a number of people have been anticipating this for several years and increasingly so since 2008 and 2014.

If this ratchets down now, there's a reasonably good chance that if the same people were in post, this will flare-up again when the US is distracted by mid-terms later this year, and certainly in 2024 if Trump were to run again.

oakleaffy · 03/03/2022 19:27

@Inkanta

Putin needs to be stopped soon. This is pretty much WW3 - we are in denial to think otherwise.
Exactly. It is head in the sand to think otherwise.
yoolia · 03/03/2022 19:29

It is head in the sand to think otherwise.

OK but it isn't though, because it isn't WW3. I'm not saying it will not turn in to WW3, but it is factually completely incorrect to say "this is WW3 and anyone who says it isn't is in denial"

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