The Invasion is ongoing...Part 5

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Unbelievable to think that a few days ago the world was starting to look more positive..ye we find ourselves on a fifth thread discussing the horrors of the war in Europe. An unbelievable change has happened to the world we live in.

Some incredible firmed posts have been written, informing, discussing, and occasionally derailing. Let's hope the news is more positive by the end of this one.

I read earlier Ukraine is defending Europe's largest nuclear plant??

Don't know what's happening/happened there or the consequence

@Inkanta

I sense that no one is going to stop Putin - and that seems to be the world we live in now. The leaders condemn his actions but won't do anything about it and stop him. He can occupy the Ukraine by force and we all have to look on - frustrated but resigned to that fact.

But what would you want?

As it would trigger WW3

Appalling behaviour from Putin and the Russians. Some of the photos and stories beggar belief. The calls for war crimes prosecution are fully justified. Even if nothing happens with respect to real world implications, at least it is an recognition of what is happening.

Of course it's interesting to see some of the people calling for that who also supported our troops illegal invasion of Iraq. I know it's what our army does, but still it hardly makes us credible.

@Bluebellsunderthetrees

You actually think that fake, poorly acted YouTube is Ukrainian?!

@Inkanta

I sense that no one is going to stop Putin - and that seems to be the world we live in now. The leaders condemn his actions but won't do anything about it and stop him. He can occupy the Ukraine by force and we all have to look on - frustrated but resigned to that fact.

And if nobody stops him now what’s to stop him deciding to do the same to other former USSR countries, won’t Putin see them as fair game next?

So @lawnfever - how do we stop him? (Without triggering WW3 - and it’s no good saying ‘ah, but he caused it, by doing what he did, because there won’t be anyone left to say it).

Interested to hear how.

It is always good to have a grasp of what the other side is thinking.

This was linked on the Twitter thread by DmitryOpines (link posted here by Postdated pandemic at 19.41) Its an interesting insight into the veiws of Russian academics and demonstrates just how powerful the propaganda campaign is.

deryugina.com/a-view-from-russian-academia/

After all the unprecedented world wide sanctiones , I can't imagine Putin would go forr another country, have on going problems in Ukraine even if he topples it, massive problems within Russia, inflation , collapsing bank's... of can't imagine he would go for round two.

Putin and Russia are screwed whatever the outcome

I just don't understand his thinking. I knew he was a bad bastard but I didn't have him down as stupid

As it would trigger WW3

You keep saying this but if thats the case, then scrap all defence spending and all go "Neutral"

We are never going to use our Military, no matter what because it will trigger WW3.

Why do you think the command structure and Putin plus all his family in the west, all want to die ?

How do you know the Russians wouldn't back down as they did with Kennedy and Cuba? Russia took their missiles away and USA dismantled theirs in Turkey.

Same could happen now, Russia gets the SE corner, Ukraine is Neutral

Contrary to what I've heard speculated elsewhere, people in China know exactly what Russia is doing and they are in overwhelming general support. Zelensky, considered here the best thing since sliced bread, is there viewed as an American puppet who has foolishly provoked Russia into an attack on his country and is now hopelessly out of his depth. My Western based Chinese friend spends more time engaging with Chinese media than Western, but is aware of the lens through which both sides see the invasion. Even so he was stunned when I explained the hero status of Zelensky across Western media, as China views him as just another Trump like figure in terms of his perceived celebrity, unsuitability for the role, and lack of political intelligence.

I don’t think Putin will be able to go for other Eastern European countries. I think he will have enough mess with Georgia and Chechnya to sort out pretty soon, all these territories that were never stable are going to bite him again and the Ukrainians will never ever give up their capital city, it has far too much meaning. He doesn’t even need the West to interfere, he will have enough mess to sort out. However, it is all so sad for all those people, including most Russians too.

I don’t think it is helpful to think of Ukrainians as temporary refugees. I think we need to make sure they are given proper new lives and opportunities across Europe to match their skills including language skills. We should be happy and offering to take those that speak fluent English. If we integrate them properly they will only contribute to our economy after the Brexit mess. Thankfully many Polish people can see that and are welcoming them in Poland.

Just seen that four Russian fighter jets have apparently violated Swedish airspace. What are they playing at? It's like they want to provoke WW3.

@Postdatedpandemic

Twitter thread with a translation of an article from Komsomolskaya Pravda (Russian tabloid) of what the Russians are being told / are thinking. It is quite horrifying and seems to tie up nicely with Lukashenko's invasion map twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1499071505757614080

It is always good to have a grasp of what the other side is thinking.

Ukraine is subdivided into at least three countries, comprising "New Russia" "Small Russia" and then the Western bits, which they don't hugely care about.

Quite worrying in the article that the ‘divided up Ukraine’ (the middle option) includes Transnistria which is currently Moldovan. It is a breakaway part of Moldova with strong links to Russia but it certainly isn’t Ukrainian or Russian at the moment.

@spleencoffin

Putin and Russia are screwed whatever the outcome

I just don't understand his thinking. I knew he was a bad bastard but I didn't have him down as stupid

He has gone from bad bastard to mad bastard and I don’t even think his top generals know what he is thinking.

I don’t think Putin will be able to go for other Eastern European countries

He will once he has Ukraine, why not, we wont risk war.

Imo headlines are right way to go

If you step into NATO country we go for it and Putin knows this.

If we go into Ukraine then all NATO will be involved and listening to radio today it would meet idea of a world war

That doesn’t help non NATO who feel at risk and I don’t know the answers to that.

Hard line.. not headline

[quote Bunnyfuller]@Bluebellsunderthetrees

You actually think that fake, poorly acted YouTube is Ukrainian?![/quote]
You don't? Ok how about Guardian video of it

or you can ask the journalist www.jakehanrahan.com/azov-youth
And keep reading ......
Anyone talking about the fighting in Mariupol read what the Greeks are saying Greek in Mariupol: “The fascist Ukrainians would kill me, they don’t let us leave the city”

@endlesscraziness
Read this in the EU parliament Murderous attack on ethnic Greeks " Ukrainian fanaticism has already claimed the first lives in this fresh conflict. On 13 February 2022, two Ukrainians of Greek descent were perceived as enemies and killed and two others were injured in a act perpetrated by individuals who were, in all likelihood, fanatical Ukrainian soldiers

The area is being terrorised by not only Ukrainian soldiers but also mercenaries and neo-Nazi security forces. Although Ukraine has ratified the Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities, it appears that non-Ukrainians are, without exception, no longer welcome in the country.

www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2022-000678_EN.html

@Papyrus

Just seen that four Russian fighter jets have apparently violated Swedish airspace. What are they playing at? It's like they want to provoke WW3.

They had a helicopter violating Japanese airspace this morning.

@LawnFever

Genuine question, if Russia succeeds and takes Ukraine, what’s to stop Putin doing the same to all the counties he views as former USSR?

If nobody stops him won’t the rest of those countries be next in his plan?

Exactly. I was/am against NATO, idk, but they should all probably join NATO immediately.

Contrary to what I've heard speculated elsewhere, people in China know exactly what Russia is doing and they are in overwhelming general support. Zelensky, considered here the best thing since sliced bread, is there viewed as an American puppet who has foolishly provoked Russia into an attack on his country

Strong words and very sympathetic to Putin. What did he do in your view that provoked the invasion?

@Papyrus

Just seen that four Russian fighter jets have apparently violated Swedish airspace. What are they playing at? It's like they want to provoke WW3.

Are they in NATO?

I said this earlier in the thread, and I think it's extremely difficult to predict what Putin is ever going to do, but I don't think his experience invading Ukraine will necessarily have emboldened him to continue in the immediacy.

Even if they are ultimately successful, he's suffered heavy losses, both in human lives and, I suspect more importantly to him, hugely expensive equipment. They also haven't proven themselves to be the all powerful conquering force he was expecting them to be (even if they succeed there's no getting away from the fact that it took much longer and more brutal action than he evidently anticipated and they were logistically poorly prepared), his troops don't appear to be especially motivated forces and he's had to resort to repeatedly hinting at or outright threatening nuclear action to keep credibility as a country to be feared and respected for their military power.

Popular and political support for him in Russia may still be there, but it certainly sounds like it's on the wane. Whatever happens, and whatever spin he puts on it, if he is still sane (I personally believe he is) and as shrewd as he has been said to be then I don't imagine he will privately view this as one of his great triumphs and one would hope that that might give him pause. Especially as I think he will have to commit a significant amount of ongoing military force to holding Ukraine if they do succeed in taking it.

Who knows, though, really. Very few people seem able to accurately predict what he's going to do, judging by past events.

Have seen on twitter a Romanian plane has gone down over the black sea. Romania is a nato member.