The Invasion is ongoing...Part 5

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Unbelievable to think that a few days ago the world was starting to look more positive..ye we find ourselves on a fifth thread discussing the horrors of the war in Europe. An unbelievable change has happened to the world we live in.

Some incredible firmed posts have been written, informing, discussing, and occasionally derailing. Let's hope the news is more positive by the end of this one.

Update: UN now estimates 875,000 people have fled Ukraine. Equivalent to nearly 2% of the Ukrainian population.

Via Lewis Goodall

[quote DuncinToffee]Putin won't like this

BREAKING - Georgia plans to submit bid to join EU on March 3 - TASS reports, citing ruling party
twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1499055102560198662?t=qgFenKLuC6fZwPC6kwrDuw&s=19[/quote]
I saw a video on Twitter of a Georgian tanker ship of some sort refusing to refuel a Russian ship, ended with them telling the Russians to fuck off. Twas brilliant (and I hope legit!)

@Bowbridge

Sorry if it has been asked before...

Why can't the Ukrainian military blow up the 40 mile convoy of Russian troops/tanks etc? They must have missiles, drones etc.

…because the Ukrainian military either don’t have the required missiles, a functioning Air Force or suitable drones and/or they don’t fancy risking what they do have sending them into whatever Air Defences are in place around the convoy.

I wonder if some are looking at some the aerial images of the convoy that have been in the media and perhaps thinking it must be easy to fly over the vehicles, so it must be easy to bomb it, etc. The reality is most if not all of the relevant images in the press have been taken from satellites at altitudes of significantly over 100km and provided by companies like Maxar Tech.

@HeadPain

Are the refugees in camps?

Not camps as such but places like theatre halls are being used to house refugees.

If you are on twitter, I can recommend @lewis_goodall for the latest information

@EsmaCannonball

Abramovich is selling Chelsea. Liquidating his assets and putting them where they can't be frozen or seized.

I thought he was donating the proceeds to Ukraine.

@Tigersonvaseline

What's Disinformation though?

Presenting any information from a biased view could be said to be Disinformation?

Or omissions, eg Tories are evil Putin puppets but ignoring link's to the Blair/brown era Which seeded and courted much of what we see today?

Biased, disinformation.

And... blindingly obvious and boring to read.

I wouldn't call that omission I would call that whataboutism , Labour is not current government, the current government is what matter right this second. So any talk about the Conservatives is relevant and talk of labour is not right now but will be in future u can be outraged at all possible corruption

so kharkiv is totally surrounded and being fired upon

Thanks @DuncinToffee

I'm watching the news tonight and my heart is breaking for the people of Ukraine. Devastating.

[quote DuncinToffee]Putin won't like this

BREAKING - Georgia plans to submit bid to join EU on March 3 - TASS reports, citing ruling party
twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1499055102560198662?t=qgFenKLuC6fZwPC6kwrDuw&s=19[/quote]
That’s one hell of a headache for the EU too. Turkey didn’t join in the end.

Does anyone have any helpful articles on the likely economic impact in Europe of this current conflict/crisis in Ukraine? I know it is nothing compared to Ukrainian children dying, but even before this, energy prices and inflation were a big problem. What are our governments and Central banks doing to keep the ordinary person supported? I haven’t seen much on this yet and I reckon it is going to be bad here too especially following Covid.
Will Chelsea FC likely be listed on the stock exchange if it is worth so much?

So Russia, Belarus, North Korea and Syria voted against at the UN assembly, unsuprising, but randomly so did Eritrea....Eritrea wtf.

@TheSillyMastiff

So Russia, Belarus, North Korea and Syria voted against at the UN assembly, unsuprising, but randomly so did Eritrea....Eritrea wtf.

Eritrea isn't surprising. I couldn't find a non-dodgy link after a quick search but there's a long history of military involvement of Russia in Eritrea. This just discusses something relatively recent but Russia has been building up its powerbases with countries in Africa for a very long time.

www.rferl.org/a/russia-talks-eritrea-set-up-logistics-center-red-sea-coast-lavrov/29464939.html

Eritrea is not known for their democracy, human rights or freedom of press so not that surprising

I thought he was donating the proceeds to Ukraine.

Not quite worded like that - it said 'to all victims of war in Ukraine' rather than Ukraininan victims only, implying it's for the victims on both sides - maybe families of Russian conscripted soldiers / medics maybe.
Typically careful and diplomatic.

Breaking (Twitter - not verified yet, but there are a lot of posts): Kyiv railway station appears to have been targeted.

Beyond... hope not.

As an aside.... I wonder how many "private security firms" are being funded to go into Ukraine.

@FatFucker

On a lighter note, I am really interested to know what the normal Russian person thinks of all this!

I believe TikTok is still online in Russia, so downloaded the app.

I put "teenage Russians" in the search ... I just hope my TikTok history is never looked at as hundreds of scantily clad young Russian girls suddenly appeared on my screen!

Can you imagine that on a AIBU thread??

Anyway does anyone have suggestions any other places I can look, or up to date articles?

The PP earlier who said her ILS were from a Russian Army family and any discussion of casualties would be classed as act of Treason, was a real insight.

I've been messaging one of my friends in Moscow – like the rest of my (educated, liberal) Russian friends in their 40s and 50s he is appalled at what is happening. Says he's ashamed to be Russian, devastated for the whole of Ukraine, and desperately worried about his children's future. Hates Putin with a passion. His son is 19 and thankfully has not yet been conscripted (probably b/c in full time education, but this may change) – he's trying to get him out to Kazakhstan but he's refusing to go. I asked what their access to Western/independent media sources is like, offered to screenshot pages from BBC website, Twitter, etc. but he says for now they're still able to get Dozhd (TV) via YouTube. Ekho Moskvy (radio) has been shut down. They can access Ukrainian media via the telegram app. Some friends have not read messages on FB, and another friend outside of Moscow said he had to install a programme to get around a FB block.

Thanks to everyone for all the links and info posted on this thread.

@BeyondPurpleTulips

Breaking (Twitter - not verified yet, but there are a lot of posts): Kyiv railway station appears to have been targeted.

twitter.com/johnsweeneyroar/status/1499099253838434306?s=21

Verified I'd suggest...

😟

@ArtfulPuss thank you. They must feel as helpless as us. Have they been demonstrating?

Do you think business will resume with Russia or do you think this is it now until Putin is gone? Are they going to be cut off from Europe and become more and more isolated and paranoid? I’m guessing their rich natural resources means this won’t be the case, if not from Europe other countries will do business with them but how anyone can trust them I don’t know?

For me it’s the lying, to their own people too. If the stories are true those poor young men have been sent into a war zone without realising it and probably haven’t been able to say proper goodbyes to their family.

To tell the international community you are on a training exercise and that you’re troops are returning back to their bases and then to suddenly attack is despicable. I know our past involvement in wars is dreadful but they were debated in parliament and internationally.

I really do sympathise with the people in Crimea, that see themselves as Russian and those in East Ukraine where fighting has been for many years and I do think Ukraine’s own actions need addressing. I really want a solution but how you can you deal with Russia now. I think Ukraine and the West would not be able to. Could China step in now and mediate? As much as I really want Ukraine to keep fighting and their wonderful President are they really going to be able to fend off Russia?. If the West are arming then does that mean they think they have a chance or is it all for show to show we haven’t abandoned them?

A local group is asking for donations of specific items, new, to forward for sending on to neighbouring states to aid refugees. The quickest way to get the items is from Amazon, which I Googled on my Apple i-phone. This got me thinking and so I did some research:

Apple
Annual sales $365 billion
Annual profit $123 billion
Market value $2.7 trillion
Cash at bank $62 billion

Alphabet (Google)
Annual sales $257 billion
Annual profit $103 billion
Market value $1.7 trillion
Cash at bank $140 billion

Amazon
Annual sales $470 billion
Annual profit $74 billion
Market value $1.5 trillion
Cash at bank $96 billion

I am wondering what these companies can do, if anything, financially to also support refugees? Collectively they have $300 billion cash on their balances sheets and make more profit than China spends on its military. I would be very grateful if they donated 10% of that to help refugees. Or at least a proportion of the money these companies make from me.

Out of interest, estimated military expenditure for 2022 (before the invasion) available from various sources:

Russia - $62 billion
Belarus - $0.7 billion
Ukraine - $5.0 billion

Four members of the UNSC:

USA - $750 billion
China - $250 billion
France - $52 billion
UK - $60 billion

@Tigersonvaseline

Beyond... hope not.

As an aside.... I wonder how many "private security firms" are being funded to go into Ukraine.

I'd never heard of the Wagner Group until a couple of days ago. Horrifying.

I wouldn't call that omission I would call that whataboutism

I agree. And I’m not sure how anyone can justify what is going on right now by looking backwards.