The invasion has begun

[Damnloginpopup]

Russia has begun it's invasion of Ukraine. Who knows where this will end.

apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-moscow-kyiv-626a8c5ec22217bacb24ece60fac4fe1

@Dinosaurs1994

How on earth didn't Putin factor food/starvation into his plans? Did he forget that soldiers need to eat?!

He hasn't thought this through has he..

Tbh I wouldn’t put too much faith in reports like this that appear based on rumour. It’s propaganda at best I should think because I doubt that putin hasn’t factored in feeding his troops at this point.

@Dinosaurs1994

How on earth didn't Putin factor food/starvation into his plans? Did he forget that soldiers need to eat?!

He hasn't thought this through has he..

Oh he has, it’s just that a lot of us here are still not able to think like him (fortunately I guess)

Conscripts are ten a rouble to him and there will be ways of motivating them to go forward (short term at least) that the west wouldn’t dream of.

So chuck them into the first wave…and above all hope for a short campaign…

Morale/hunger amongst the Russian troops will only be a real problem if this goes beyond the weekend…and given there are reports of fighting in or very near Kiev this AM…..

Putin won’t care too much about his 18 year old conscripts. They are expendable, easily replaced. Russia is a big country.
Obviously cutting off supplies to his military is what’s needed, even with a large military force that Russia has.

Actually that information about soldiers starving is coming first hand out of Moscow cornetto:

www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/21/russian-troops-at-ukraines-border-face-nightmare-living-conditions-a76488

There is no question that the soliders have not been fed for weeks. The reason Putin needs to be this swift are for this very reason. Unfortunately for him, it looks like the poor soldiers have been struggling for at least ten days already.

To dismiss accurate information coming out of Moscow itself about the state of the Russian soldiers is ridiculous, unless you can back up your claims that this hasn't happened then please refrain from posting misinformation.

I’ve said this before but why can’t Putin be overthrown? I know people are scared of death, but surely if those closest to him got rid of him.
I always wondered about the same in Germany with Hitler.

Also remember Slobadan Milosovich was sent to The Hague for war crimes for the war in Kosovo?

Sadam Hussain was hung after the Iraq war.

Will Putin be arrested and sent to prison himself?

At this point in the game I were leading Ukraine I would be raining missiles down on Moscow and give them a taste of what fear feels like. I wonder if this is going to lead directly into the heart of Russia - no one can invade another country and expect their own borders to remain safe.

Ukraine doesn't have any missiles that can reach Moscow. They have apparently bombed an airbase across the border in Russia though. That is lawful self-defence.

@Keepyourheadscrewedon misinformation? No, I’m questioning sources and why this information would be widely publicised by Russian sources. Who does it benefit to report a weakened Russian forces? On face value, certainly not putin (who has a tight grip on the countries media) which leads me to suspect that it’s not true and a tactic to lower opposition defences.

A starving army would be a very rookie mistake and given Russia aren’t in the grip of a famine or food sanctions, unnecessary.

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

At this point in the game I were leading Ukraine I would be raining missiles down on Moscow and give them a taste of what fear feels like. I wonder if this is going to lead directly into the heart of Russia - no one can invade another country and expect their own borders to remain safe.

What missiles at that range are these, then?

Many Russians live over 6000km from Moscow. That’s further than London to New York! Would bombing Moscow subdue them, or make them rise up in support of Putin and Mother Russia? It’s never that simple.

How much access do ordinary Russians in Russia currently have to international press, Twitter etc. - I think it is really important to understand that. The biggest nightmare for autocratic dinosaurs like Putin and even Xi is the internet which in itself promotes democracy in an indirect way, Russians and Chinese as a whole are very educated people. We must absolutely remember that - it is a very far cry from a typical 1940s Russian conscript.
We need to destabilise internally - in fact, that is what Russia has tried to do from afar for years precisely because they fear that the most themselves. You really cannot control the minds of a huge populace in the internet area.

@OrangesWithWhiskey

China wold have a great interest in a conflict between Russia and Europe. Imagine Putin gone and Russia and Europe being very friendly allies and friends..... European super power comes to mind. First a Chinese pandemic, now a scary European conflict on the back of that, hmmmm....

Don't give the tin-hatters ideas please!

@Xenia

I agree although Italy and Japan were on Germany's side so there was some help in some areas.

Italy was a hindrance. For the first half until they switched sides Germany had to bail out their failures. Japan thankfully did not come into the European theatre but absolutely ravaged the east. Their greatest help for Germany came in splitting the allied forces into fighting on two fronts.

@keepyourheadscrewedon

We should be focusing on the whole picture.
Most people will be focused on the humanitarian side of all this so thank goodness there are people out there who will also try and help the animals.
Pets will be left to starve to death as people flee or are sadly killed.

Attacking posters who show concern for the animals in Ukraine (who lets be honest are also innocent in all this) is wrong.
It's the superiority complex of humans that has led to the world being in the state it is now.

As I said earlier, being concerned for the animals doesn't mean you are not concerned for the people.

I will gladly offer my help to anyone or anything suffering in Ukraine right now.
I just wish I could do more to help.

Breaking news that China it appears to be brokering a meeting between the President of Ukraine and Putin.

That is a very very interesting development if it happens.

@VisaQuestions

I found this simplistic:

@Damnloginpopup I think it is the Russian mentality to fight to the death. I remember watching a documentary about Chernobyl and soldiers were queuing up for the honour of basically committing suicide for the USSR. The only hope is that I truly believe the Russian people are not behind Putin in this, he might find more internal resistance than previous leaders. The Russian people are more 'westernised' and the younger people have lost the Bolshevik mentality. We can live in hope.

@Libraryghost

My own father refused to go to Chernobyl and I know many who avoided conscription in some way, men who’d been in Afghan war. It was more a case for those who did feeling ‘someone had to’, no pride, but resignation.

I personally think the Russian and (western at least) Ukrainian people have quite different mentality and always have had division. Many Ukrainians are Nationalistic, but are freedom lovers, libertarians and have a long history of clashing/ not submitting. They don’t share the Russian collectivist views nor the dictator acceptance.

An example is en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor Holodomor was a man made famine, a soviet genocide of Ukrainian people. This isn’t forgotten in Ukraine. Millions of ethnic Ukrainians died, unprecedented in peacetime for any nation.

Ukrainians are willing to fight for freedom, defend to the last man because they are not one people who share a mindset. They fear the loss of being a sovereign nation greatly and again being stripped by Russia with a mad man leading them…. Again. Moldovans are in solidarity as they fear if Ukrainians fall, they do too, the March continues south.

Many Russian soldiers don’t have this mentality. They are poor teenagers, men in poverty who’ve been dumped to fight a war without commanders following. They don’t even know what they are fighting for in cases. Some didn’t even believe they would be fighting. Others are simply rebels/ fighters who have had 8 years of lawless uncontrolled war. Not a crack team, but violent uncontrolled men.

I was quoting another poster but I'm glad you picked up and responded to their words as your own are very interesting, thank you

Associated Press reporting the pope going to the Russian embassy. Unprecedented.

apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-united-nations-kyiv-6ccba0905f1871992b93712d3585f548

I wonder if Putin will chuckle and quote Stalin's question of how many divisions the pope commanded.

The feeling is universal. I just wish there was a way it could be acted upon.

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

Breaking news that China it appears to be brokering a meeting between the President of Ukraine and Putin.

That is a very very interesting development if it happens.

@Keepyourheadscrewedon where did you see this? Thanks

Zelensky is offering to negotiate

China is saying that Putin told Xi that he would be willing to negotiate but so far I haven't seen the Russians saying this themselves

I don't think it's very likely Russia will negotiate right now when their offensive is not exactly going to plan yet. It would just look like weakness. They still think they can take Kyiv and install a puppet government.

If they offer to negotiate it will be along the lines of what they've been saying lately, they will talk to Zelensky if he agrees to unconditional surrender basically.

MOSCOW, Feb 25 (Reuters) - Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Friday that Moscow would be ready to hold talks with Kyiv, but only once Ukraine's military had laid down its arms.

Russia plan seems to be going exactly to plan?

They are about to take Kiev

What happened to their equipment?
Anti air craft guns etc?

I can't believe Russia took the air port so quickly?

Yes " talks" once Kiev is strangled And taken by Russia???

No-one talks while they are winning.

No it's not gone to plan quite yet

They lost control of the key airport outside Kyiv that was meant to allow the insertion of thousands of forces to take the capital. They are having to do a land offensive which is giving Kyiv time to bolster defences and will involve much more difficult urban warfare.

They have not taken other cities as quickly as they thought either.

They have lost lots of soldiers and equipment. Morale is reportedly low.

I'm not saying they will fail but it has not been the kind of impressive juggernaut that many expected. Not really 'shock and awe' style.

One dude laying down their arms could be a big old trap

I don’t envy decision makers

Has anyone heard anything about an orphanage being abandonned by the adults, in the Ukraine leaving the children behind. Ive tried to Google but nothing is coming up, it was on a Facebook group that I follow and am trying to see if its true or not. And if it is what can be done to help them.