The invasion has begun

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Russia has begun it's invasion of Ukraine. Who knows where this will end.

apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-moscow-kyiv-626a8c5ec22217bacb24ece60fac4fe1

[quote Febrier]A few suggestions of how we can support the people of Ukraine this morning: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/24/how-can-britons-help-the-people-of-ukraine[/quote]
Thanks for this @Febrier 🙂

Yesterday 08:10 BakerMan

Riverlee
Depressing.

Today was supposed to be the day we all relax slightly about covid, and to start ‘living with it’ rather than being afraid of it, and then this happens.

Another black cloud hanging over us.”

Have been wondering whether Covid is what has prompted this, just now?
Other nations are depleted, their economies damaged, their people exhausted and wanting just to get on with their own lives.
If I were a nutter wanting to invade a neighbour, I’d probably take advantage of that situation and the likely lack of appetite for even harder times/financial commitment.

We could also continue to arm Ukraine, as after all the best case scenario is that they fight of this Russian aggression and send them packing.

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

We could also continue to arm Ukraine, as after all the best case scenario is that they fight of this Russian aggression and send them packing.

The problem is the speed of this. Can it be there in days? Can we train people instantly? Whilst I don’t disagree, I don’t know if the window is still open

@Phrenologistsfinger

. It is possible to care about people and animals simultaneously. Also many heartbroken traumatised people on the move might feel slightly better if they knew their pets were ok.

Agree x

@allibaby

Three things to remember, humans have no more right to be on this planet than any other animal. Animals are not responsible for creating this threat, past threats or any future threats. It is entirely possible to care about what happens to innocent humans AND innocent animals at the same time so if someone wants to donate to an animal charity then mind your own fucking business. Nobody is forcing you to do so.

Love this! Thank you x

Just to come back to the Kiev/Kyiv thing - I don't know why someone would call me out on this, given language matters so much.

But maybe you could read this: twitter.com/jessbrammar/status/1497119139990757384

@allibaby

Three things to remember, humans have no more right to be on this planet than any other animal. Animals are not responsible for creating this threat, past threats or any future threats. It is entirely possible to care about what happens to innocent humans AND innocent animals at the same time so if someone wants to donate to an animal charity then mind your own fucking business. Nobody is forcing you to do so.

But it’s pretty crass to pop up on a thread that is about the threat to people, to virtue signal that you want to help the animals, asking for a suggestion for an animal charity.

The poster should - IMO - have considered the time and the place. Go Google it. Or if you must post it here, ask for links for humans and animals.

My Ukrainian friend posting from Kyiv last night has both a daughter and a dog. He loves them both. I think you know which one he cares about more.

@allibaby hear hear

The problem is the speed of this. Can it be there in days? Can we train people instantly? Whilst I don’t disagree, I don’t know if the window is still open

Well, there seems to be a slight window now, given Russia has had to pause. I understand the soldiers are starving.

www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/21/russian-troops-at-ukraines-border-face-nightmare-living-conditions-a76488

Ukraine do not need to 'win' although that would obv be better, but a stalemate would be very helpful. Moscow and Russia would consider this a failure, and Ukraine could win the day. Russia can not afford a protracted war and severe loss.

@Cocomarine
But it's not a thread about "threat to human life" it's a thread about the Russian invasion which will affect ALL life including animals so there is absolutely nothing "crass" about showing concern for every life over there.

Not sure what your comment about your friend loving their child more than their pet has to do with anything as that is personal.
Some of us are capable of being concerned for all.

How on earth didn't Putin factor food/starvation into his plans? Did he forget that soldiers need to eat?!

He hasn't thought this through has he..

I think we could do with focusing on the humanitarian disaster that is just about to hit. Five million refugees. UNICEF UK have launched a campaign for them. I care about animals deeply, but there will be starving and homeless children in their millions gathering in Poland, I think given the choice most parents would wish for us to help them.

I listened to a lady from Kyiv being interviewed this morning by a BBC reporter. She had remained in the city and was in a cafe. She explained that she had told her kids what to do and where to go if Russian troops invaded. She said that she had to be calm so her kids were calm and didn't panic.
Just an ordinary woman shoring incredible bravery.

Kyiv is under attack -- live news showing serious fighting in the capital and other cities.

A tank driving over a man in a car, where Kyiv is:
m.censor.net/ua/photo_news/3319088/rosiyiski_okupanty_pereyihaly_viyiskovoyi_tehnikoyu_avtomobil_z_pensionerom_u_kyyevi_cholovik_dyvom

He survived for anyone who can’t tell btw, thankfully. A pensioner

Thanks for the Daily Mail article. I don’t usually trust the DM but the journalist/academic etc whatever he is seems legit. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Galeotti - so I am following him on Twitter now. I really think we need to all start listening to the academics who understand Russian history.
None of my friends who are Russian support this war, but clearly the Russians themselves need to do something about Putin and how do we help them with that.

My Russian connections are colleagues in Moscow rather than friends, but I’ve known them many years and some are friends now.
They are now - and always have been - horrified by Putin.

It’s an echo chamber though - they’re all educated, English speaking, working for a Western European company, living in Moscow which is effectively in Europe (the map of Russia is mind boggling - the country is HUGE)…

It’s frightening that outside of my echo chamber, there is no doubt also Russian support for Putin 😕

Mark Galeotti is indeed a highly respected academic analyst on Russia. I would also recommend Michael Kofman, who focuses on the military/logistics side. He accurately predicated the Russian invasion when most observers were saying it would never happen.

If you're on Twitter this is a very good list of Russia/Ukraine experts posting in English:
twitter.com/i/lists/43845512?s=20

Things looking very scary in Kyiv right now : (

theconversation.com/ukraine-invasion-should-russia-lose-its-seat-on-the-un-security-council-177870

This is quite interesting too.

Look at Germany in WW2. They alone, ok with some other allies, managed to keep the war going for 6 years.
The USA joined us in 1941. It still took four years to defeat Germany. Even with the USSR fighting them.
My point is a determined enemy is a hard one to defeat.

Putin isn’t that strong and cannot control the internet fully in his own country. If there is the international will to get him out, it can be done. It is what should have happened with Hitler. Putin himself might have a martyr complex who knows.

China wold have a great interest in a conflict between Russia and Europe. Imagine Putin gone and Russia and Europe being very friendly allies and friends..... European super power comes to mind. First a Chinese pandemic, now a scary European conflict on the back of that, hmmmm....

I agree although Italy and Japan were on Germany's side so there was some help in some areas.