DH considering becoming a doctor

[pinkgingham]

Posting here in case anyone has experience/advice they can share.

DH is 37 and in a fairly good career type role but it doesn't motivate him (it could uncharitably be called a bullshit job).

He wanted to study medicine at uni but instead did politics (got some dodgy career advice at school and was the first in his family to go uni).

He's wanted to retrain for many years but it didn't make sense whilst we were trying to buy a house, have kids etc.

He's now considering it properly for the first time. Unfortunately he has had to spend a lot of time in hospital recently due to serious illness in his family and it's really brought home to him that what the medical staff do is so meaningful, which is a direct contrast to his job (in his view).

We've worked out that we could afford to live on my salary for a few years if needed whilst he was studying, I appreciate that the hours are crazy and sometimes unpredictable and that it would put a lot more of the childcare burden on me. I still think it's worth it though as he has a lot of years left to work and you only get one life and it's a long time to waste in a job you think is meaningless. He would love to do it but is always more cautious than me.

Is this totally mad? Do people actually do this at 37? What do we need to consider?

I know three women who started midwifery training in their 30s with young children and two of them gave up because the pressure of work, study, night shifts and family was too much.

I suspect though that the OP's DH will be expecting the OP to deal with her job, the DC and the house abs everything that comes with those things.

Why doctor? Why not paramedic, nurse, physio, OT, speech therapist, midwife, etc? All would bring great job satisfaction without the unbelievable sacrifices medicine would bring. Good luck op

@BunnyRuddington

I know three women who started midwifery training in their 30s with young children and two of them gave up because the pressure of work, study, night shifts and family was too much.

I suspect though that the OP's DH will be expecting the OP to deal with her job, the DC and the house abs everything that comes with those things.

This is the biggest risk with someone following a passion; especially if they're doing something to 'help people'. A sort of hero complex emerges... they become too big and important to consider any teamwork, spouse will be made to deal with everything so that nothing disturbs the saving of humanity, Sorry if i sound dramatic OP I've seen it too many times. You also see it loads on MN with the number 'big jobs' MN'ers husbands supposedly have

Would he perhaps be interested in public health training? It's a medical specialty but you don't have to be a doctor to do it. Five year training and they'll often match your current pay

@mocktail

I know three women who started midwifery training in their 30s with young children and two of them gave up because the pressure of work, study, night shifts and family was too much. The idea of starting medicine at a similar age is impossible for me to imagine.

Agree with the difficulties for the spouse/children with these careers.

I know three midwives who quite working as midwives for the same reason: two found it impossible to sort childcare when they became single parents (marriages broke down) and the third stayed married and had children, but could no longer stand the crazy hours when she wanted to see her own little ones.

Another doctor here.

I have a clinical role which and a leadership role in my organisation. Consultant for 10 years.

I summarised my job to someone on Friday afternoon as:

Telling patients things they don’t want to hear and making them cry (not my shit communication skills, it’s the nature of the specialty) then telling colleagues things they don’t want to hear about the organisation and asking them to do things they don’t want to do.

I usually love my job but it’s been tough lately and I cried to my partner on the way home.

So yes, there are challenges in the training which have been summarised above but I think he needs to carefully consider what the endpoint might be. It sounds likes he’s looking it through rose tinted glasses, and there are positives, I earn a very good salary, I have great colleagues who are all highly motivated, but it’s very difficult even once through the training and I see a lot of impact on mental health and well-being.

I can relate to that Ikeameatballs
I found training hard in a physical sense ( back in the late 80s my house officer jobs involved 3 day weekend on calls 1:3 for instance) but it was my 20 odd years as a Consultant, particularly the decade as a Clinical Director that did far more damage to my mental health and relationships.

Doctor here.

Absolutely don't do it . I went into it straight from uni. Now late 30s and only just finished my speciality training.

Get treated like crap. Work like a dog. No control over where or when you work- nights / weekends / holidays.

Working conditions are absymal-

Have to pay enormous exam fees, indemnity fees and mandatory professional subscriptions from your own pocket this costs 000 per year

Pay and conditions are shit

Public don't respect you on the whole

It's my biggest regret

Wow AgingDoc. I had hoped once at consultant level people felt they had more control and enjoyed it more.😔

@Eucalyptusbee I’ve recently seen a thread on Twitter about the exam fees I had no idea they were so expensive or paid out of your wages, it’s disgraceful.

Hell no! I'm 37 and groan when I stand up or bend down. I just cannot fathom being in a criminally understaffed hospital as a Junior Doctor, looking at my watch and realising that yet again, I'm still there 18 hours after my shift ended. Running to resus and surviving for days on end with two hours sleep and a piece of toast. The training years are not for anyone but the young & fit in their absolute prime of life. Ie: 18-28, possibly 30.

Just my opinion

I highly recommend reading 'Trust me I'm a (Junior) Doctor' by Max Pemberton!

Maybe some do @OutlookStalking but my experience, and that of many, many consultants I know - especially those who put their heads above the parapet and take on leadership roles - is of being given huge responsibility and minimal authority. You can see problems and you know what needs to be done but you don't have the resources or permission to do it. Managers are in charge, not clinicians. And it is getting worse. I'm glad to have retired and don't envy younger doctors at all.

Even as a consultant these days it doesn't necessarily mean you're safe from the horrible hours - on Thursday night I had to call my boss in 3 times in one night. That's a record for me and I felt shit about it, but at least he came and was nice about it. I'm a senior trainee so can handle the majority of things myself, but just started a new on call rota with a specialty I'm not very familiar with, and we happened to have two major cases in very sick patients happen in the same shift (the third was a fairly minor one which I actually did myself but had potential to go badly wrong very quickly, so he wanted to be nearby). Fortunately my consultant was the same age as me, and was very understanding about it all, but he looked dreadful by the time we had finished.

Hmm maybe watch “this is going to hurt” on tv with him! I wouldn’t like the hours. Is there something else he could do that isn’t a bullshit job?

@Eucalyptusbee

Doctor here.

Absolutely don't do it . I went into it straight from uni. Now late 30s and only just finished my speciality training.

Get treated like crap. Work like a dog. No control over where or when you work- nights / weekends / holidays.

Working conditions are absymal-

Have to pay enormous exam fees, indemnity fees and mandatory professional subscriptions from your own pocket this costs 000 per year

Pay and conditions are shit

Public don't respect you on the whole

It's my biggest regret

I’m in a PAM and agree with this. Patients don’t adhere to the treatment plans then expect you to fix it in the 20 minute appointment.

Also our professional fees are now £450 a year, £90 to HCPC. Then I work with nurses complaining theirs are £100 a year.

Then I work with nurses complaining theirs are £100 a year.

In general those nurses earn a fraction of what you do. It’s all relative

No we earn the same. It’s not relative I pay more. I’m in a profession allied to medicine, not medicine.

Ah, apologies, I misunderstood your post.

@Fluffycloudland77
My aunt also an allied health professional would agree.
Trust in HCP is declining, but also people CBA. They trust Dr google more

My dad was an ENT Consultant, and he strongly dissuaded us from entering medicine, although he loved his job. The studies are one thing, but then there are placements, rotations, shifts, on call duties. His concern for us was that it took a long time to get somewhere and become established. His working hours were crazy, weekends were often spent working or on call, and he was rarely able to make it to a parents evening or school performance. I totally get having a “calling”; I went into law and found it so unrewarding, and am in awe of people that go into medicine. But you need to be under no illusions, it’s a big job that will encroach on family time. But I’m sure your kids will have total respect and appreciation for his new career, like I always did.

I think you can do a conversion course from a good degree which is a little shorter, but very hard to get on the course. Would be worth finding out more about this? Has he considered doing something related to medicine but with a shorter training? Psychology, pharmacy and related subjects. There are many options other than straight medicine.
Apologies if somebody else has said this, I haven't had time to read all the thread.

Or working his way to becoming a nurse practioner which means you are highly specialised, well paid and wouldn't have all the junior doctor rubbish involving being moved aroumd a lot, ludicrous shift work etc.

ITU consultants wife here! My first question is how self sufficient are you? As someone further up on the post said you can never rely on them to be around, back on time, or really be anywhere other than work. And you can’t complain because they’ve been late saving someone’s life.

Yeah the money is good now as he also does private but it’s been a long time coming (he’s 45 now and started training at 19, became consultant I think around 8-9 years ago). Other less stressful less responsible jobs can pay more, a friend who’s an actuary earns way more just in bonuses. I do question whether that would have been an easier route.

I am proud of him but sometimes think shacking up with anyone doing a trade who’s back by 5 each day would’ve been a less lonely life, but it is what it is.

I’m not sure either of us would encourage our kids into medicine, you’ve got to give up too much and it’s such a stressful environment. My husband says the pressures shown in This is Going to Hurt are pretty much bang on. I think it takes a certain type to cope.

He'd be at least 50 before he got any meaningful salary and are you really up for the 12hr night shifts he'll be required to do or the on call days/nights etc. It's a big burden to shoulder as well as his study times needing quiet and being sent to other places in the UK to do part of the training, not once, but several times over the years? That would mean being away from home for weeks or months and only getting home on time off.
Something which needs very careful consideration. He would only have possibly 10-15 years after qualifying.