DH considering becoming a doctor

[pinkgingham]

Posting here in case anyone has experience/advice they can share.

DH is 37 and in a fairly good career type role but it doesn't motivate him (it could uncharitably be called a bullshit job).

He wanted to study medicine at uni but instead did politics (got some dodgy career advice at school and was the first in his family to go uni).

He's wanted to retrain for many years but it didn't make sense whilst we were trying to buy a house, have kids etc.

He's now considering it properly for the first time. Unfortunately he has had to spend a lot of time in hospital recently due to serious illness in his family and it's really brought home to him that what the medical staff do is so meaningful, which is a direct contrast to his job (in his view).

We've worked out that we could afford to live on my salary for a few years if needed whilst he was studying, I appreciate that the hours are crazy and sometimes unpredictable and that it would put a lot more of the childcare burden on me. I still think it's worth it though as he has a lot of years left to work and you only get one life and it's a long time to waste in a job you think is meaningless. He would love to do it but is always more cautious than me.

Is this totally mad? Do people actually do this at 37? What do we need to consider?

@dipdye

Would he actually get accepted?

Or would he have to do A levels etc?

A Levels are unlikely to be needed if he has at least a 2:1. He'll probably need to sit the GAMSAT / BMAT / UCAT depending which courses he's planning to apply to (list here with the required test for each uni -www.themedicportal.com/application-guide/graduate-entry-medicine/).

No chance. He's crazy to consider it.

It's popular these days to say live your best life, you can do anything, etc. But it's not true. It would be a really bad idea.

What exactly does he like about the prospect of medicine? Which specialism does he want to work in once qualified (A&E, GP, Geriatrics, Gynae etc) ? What aspects of the role does he enjoy? Empathy? Caring? Money? Perceived respect? Perceived knowledge?

I'm not personally a Dr but have worked closely with many for 20+ yrs. It can be competitive, long hours and ruthless in getting the placement/specialist you want. With a family, I would think the stress and extremely long, rotating hours would be awful.

Depending on what he hopes to get out of it, has he considered osteopathy or other allied professions? Its still a 5yr course, with a registered body, but once qualified, he could set up his own practice, rent rooms and set his own hours.

You’re looking at at least 12 years before consultancy and that’s the bare minimum if you don’t do fellowship years abroad etc, which anyone does if they are going into a competitive field. He’s likely to need to do some kind of pre-need access course if he has no science background at all.
Hours are brutal. Pay isn’t as great as everyone thinks it is considering the hours worked for it. Plus the endless study every night and weekends when not physically working. He’d be getting to consultant when all the other consultants at his age are slowing down a bit and training their fellows to do the work.
I’m with the folks suggesting a physician’s assistant. DH has one who helps in clinic and in theatre and has some autonomy. They are changing the role all the time, to include injections/prescribing etc. he would get there quicker and have a longer “working” life-and probably enjoy it more as he wouldn’t be so knackered.

I am 37 and a doctor. I started medical school at 19 and I have just over a year to go till I am a consultant (i.e. will have been in some form of training for almost 20 years). Now, I have taken a slightly more scenic route than I might have done - did a 6 year degree, had a year in a non-training job after F2 because I didn't get into my chosen specialty first time, then the biggie of two mat leaves and working part time for the last three FT years of my training - but even if I'd done the shortest possible degree and succeeded at every job application first time, it would have taken 14 years from starting med school to consultant. If he were to become a GP it would be less (3 years after F2) but he'd still be close to 50 before he finished. And as others have said, there can be a lot of uncertainty and moving around in that time, though this varies depending on your chosen specialty and where you currently live.

I've just finished a couple of night shifts and they get harder as I get older. Even as a GP trainee he'd have to do nights in his hospital rotations - does he want to be doing that in his late 40s?

As it's been a very long time since he's done any academic work, and his degree is in a non-science subject, he'd have to check very carefully which unis he'd even be eligible to apply to, as most of them won't accept any random degree into their GEM courses. He may need to redo A-Levels or take an access course, and even those aren't accepted anywhere. He should also try to arrange some proper work experience or talking to some junior doctors, to see if the career is really what he thinks it might be. I'm not saying definitely don't do it, but he needs to research carefully and consider what the impact on the whole family might be for the next decade or more.

Dr of 22 years here. He needs to be aware of what he may loose. I worked with a dr who went to med school in her early 30s. By her own admission it cost her her marriage and her children’s mental health. Med school would be the easy bit- but would you all move to be near him at med school, and would you keep moving? How portable is your job? He couldn’t start this sept, so he’d be 38 or 39 when he started, and if he chose GP he’d be 47 or 48 by the time he’d got his post graduate qualifications, much older if he chose a hospital speciality.
I work with some brilliant physicians associates. One in particular would have been an awesome dr. I’ve asked him why he didn’t do medicine and he just said he couldn’t put his family through it. My DH is very proud of what I do, but he hates the hours and the antisocial nature of it (we met when I was already a consultant so he missed the worst of it). I’ve missed so many family occasions due to work. There are still rotas with set leave ie you start a 4 or 6 month job and have your holiday already allocated- and you can’t change it. Happy for you to PM me. I’m not saying no, but I’m asking ‘is it worth it?’.

My DD1 is a doctor.. a young one. 5 years of med school from 18, straight from school, two years as F1 F2, then locumed for a few years while she decided where she actually wanted to be. Now a trainee gp (first two years in a teaching hospital and is now in a GP practice.

It's been brutal frankly... she's married but no kids (gay but hoping to have children) and she has worked every hour god sends. No social life, long hours, poor pay for the work she does. She LOVES her job but it's not easy. BUT she couldn't/wouldn't do anything else. She told me she was going to be a doctor at 4 years old and never changed her mind! She's just turned 30.

It's not too late for your dh, but he will be a bit of an anomally as a med student at his age. It needs incredible stamina..it's constant assessment, you are ranked form day 1 and that determines where you may end up..travelling , moving away.
You need to take on board that if you have kids you will be a single parent for years while he studies, does placements, exams... is not home for Xmas, school events, birthdays...

It's doable but it would be tough, and the trailing spouse takes a HUGE hit.

I don’t know much about the training but I have been in and out of hospital with DS and remember chatting to one trainee who was coming to the end of a 35 hour shift. He slept at the hospital incase he was needed and wants completely sleep deprived but could your DH do that? Obviously if that’s the route he chooses?

Another doctor of 20 years here. Medicine is a fantastic career, but it absolutely puts your family through the wringer.

I genuinely could not manage if DH wasn’t working from home and able to pick up the slack (I suppose we’d have to get a nanny). A lot of this will fall to you. DH always complains that I never put him first, but the fact is that he can flex but work never will.

I assume your DH is thinking of GP rather than a hospital specialty (because he won’t have time to train in a hospital specialty before retirement). I am sure it would be a rewarding career for him and he’d enjoy it. I’m just not sure you will enjoy being married to him while he does it.

If he’s already in the kind of job where you do all the childcare and he gets back at 9pm each night, fine, it will be fairly similar. If he is in a “finishes at 5pm” type job, it is going to be a big shakeup.

Is his undergraduate degree in science? Does he work in science? I cannot imagine going back at 37 and taking chemistry biology physics to the level you will need to graduate as a medical doctor unless you are already immersed on some level in those acaemic skills needed to graduate.

That's not saying anything about the post grad experience (brutal ime but ok to get through when young, childless, healthy and hopeful).

And, honestly, I agree with the poster who said this "do anything to live your best life" thing is madness. there are loads of ways to live your life and loads of ways to divert your course in life for fulfillment without going full in to a course that of necessity demands a huge academic and intellectual commitment as well as a skills and time commitment (and it never ends - reading journals/staying up to date/worrying about your patients).

If his degree is in politics and he is working in, say, marketing, then could he consider doing that for an organisation that matters? Or switching to something more meaningful that is in his area of expertise.

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Honestly, I wouldn't recommend this. Such a lot of work with ridiculous amounts of stress.

Would he consider nursing or any AHP role instead? This would be much quicker and in the same time
It takes to get a position as a dr he could be in a senior nursing role instead.

I don't think I would have listened to people telling me not to do it when I started
But he shouldn't do it

It's a lifestyle not a job
The meaningful and worthwhile aspect comes at an emotional price
It's many years of studying outside work and paying out money for exams and training and courses before you get to be a consultant or a GP
The shift work is very sucky
The rotation aspect moving jobs every 6 months is very sucky
I think it's made me the person I am and some of that is not so good. I am not sure it is normal to be as inured to death and suffering as I am. Martyrdom is a job requirement. I am a pretty bad friend after years of always being on call on special occasions or having to move away. I try not to think I am a better person because of my job but a lot of Drs do seem to think they ticked the 'being nice' box by going to work and don't have to try after that.

What about a 'profession allied to medicine'?
I often think I would have been as happy with being a physio, OT, psychologist or a pharmacist and it would have been a hell of a lot easier. OT is my top pick. That seems a lovely job.

I've researched this extensively because I've been considering a similar career change.

I'd recommend watching the new series This is Going to Hurt on BBC iPlayer for an insight into working for the NHS, and everything that's expected from junior doctors.

Recently retired consultant in an acute hospital specialty here.
It's not impossible but it would be very challenging and in all honesty I wouldn't recommend it.
As others have said, medical school would be the easy bit. Postgraduate training is much harder as not only are you doing a demanding full time job with pretty antisocial hours, you have to study for what are probably the toughest exams you've ever done, largely in your "spare time". Things have changed a bit since I was at that stage, but I remember as a Registrar my life was little more than work, study, sleep a bit, repeat. Oh, and the long hours commuting as the Deanery was huge and they seemed to delight in sending us to the hospitals furthest from where we lived. My DH ended up changing jobs so we could move more centrally to reduce my travel a bit, but not everyone can do that of course. It was extremely tough as a childless 20 something and I can't imagine doing it in my 40s with children to consider.
If your DH wants to do a hospital specialty he will probably be over 50 by the time he's a Consultant, assuming everything goes smoothly. And for most, it doesn't really get any easier then. Different, but not necessarily easier. Yes, things are more stable and exams are out of the way generally, but the pressures are still intense and the hours not necessarily better. On the last day on call I did before I retired, I was in the hospital for over 20 out of the 24 hours, during which time I saw 2 shifts of junior docs and 3 of nurses, but I was still going. It wasn't that bad every time of course, but nor was that particularly unusual. More or less everyone I know who is a Consultant in their 50s is counting down the days til they can retire or at least go part time - in acute specialties anyway. Your DH would be starting at about the age that everyone else is hoping to wind down.
GP training is a bit quicker, taking around 5 years after medical school, so he could be fully qualified in his late 40s. But Primary Care has huge problems too. There are good reasons why there is such a shortage of GPs at present.
There are great things about the job as well of course, but it comes at high personal cost for many. My mental and physical health both suffered significantly and I am far from unusual. I do miss treating patients, and some of my colleagues but I don't miss all the rest of the crap that the job entailed and I definitely don't miss being an NHS employee. I'd previously been intrigued by how many ex colleagues seemed to look younger when I met them again a while after they retired, and now I understand why.

To be frank, I am not sure I could honestly really recommend medicine to a young person and I am relieved that none of my children have shown any inclination to follow in my footsteps, but I would definitely discourage an older person. I'm sure it could be done, but I suspect there would be a high price to pay. If he really wants to work in the medical field I would agree that one of the allied professions already suggested would be a better choice. They still aren't easy, either in terms of training or the actual jobs, but more feasible than embarking on medicine at this stage and still potentially extremely rewarding work.

I think the sacrifices would be too much. We are your age with a young family and I would say to my dp there are so many ways to live a meaningful life, I think for the sake of your children and marriage you have to find one that won’t make you largely unavailable to us for a decade, not to mention will we have to uproot the family and move several times or you just live and work somewhere else and see us once or twice a month when you get enough time to travel to us. I don’t think our children will think your commitment to society through this justifies what will be your lack of commitment to them.

I don’t think 37 is “too old” at all, if you already have a Science degree, older children and want to be a GP. But that’s not the case here.

The GEM at my Uni has incredibly high entry requirements (I went to the Open Day for it out of curiosity, I’m a Microbio student) and they were honest about how brutal the course is.

I wouldn’t be willing to support this either financially or by doing most of the parenting. Primarily due to the very high financial costs, time costs, and risks to the DC associated with one parent doing limited parenting for many years.

Most people with DC aren’t able to make such costly changes.

I think actually becoming a doctor would be very hard on all of you.

If he’s drawn to it because he’s interested in science, not squeamish and wants to do something worthwhile to help people, then there are probably a thousand other jobs that would fulfil those interests.

Have a look at other healthcare professional roles. I just don’t think it’s reasonable to pursue becoming a doctor once you have young children to take into account.

Thank you so much for all the contributions! So much food for thought, this is exactly what we need to consider, thank you.

Without a LOT of money it’d be a huge sacrifice for the rest of the family, for many years, to facilitate one person’s wishes.

I worker for a lawyer who did this at 36. Shehad three kids and managed.

There are many roles that make up the healthcare system. Being a doctor isn’t the route I would recommend.

He should look at alternatives that are equally valuable and potentially as satisfying but which won’t involve as much family sacrifice. Radiographer, physiotherapist, speech and language therapist, pharmacist (if he’s very clever)…..there are many options!

He might also want to consider whether he could use any existing transferrable skills to side step into a more rewarding sector rather than starting over. Politics sounds like a good grounding for any management role in the nhs or charity sector…….

So much negativity on this thread. My friend did this early 30s, loves it, hasn’t looked back. Still married with children.
If this is your DH’s calling (and it sounds like it is) do you really want to stop him?

Also, she earns well