Your examples of how men just don’t *get it*

[AsYouWishButtercup]

What are your examples of how men just don’t get What life is like for women?

Mine was a dad at school drop off today who asked if I was still training for a half marathon. I said no as I’ve just had surgery but TBH it it nigh-on impossible to train in winter outside because of the dark nights and by the time I leave work it’s too dark to start a run

He said “Why don’t you just invest in a head torch” when I explained it’s not the lack of light that’s the problem, it’s the danger of being attacked, it seems the thought had NEVER occurred to him that women have to factor these things into everyday life. I’m constantly amazed that men are surprised by these things.

@tearinghairout

I had a conversation about women not feeling safe at night with a male colleague. He is a lovely, kind guy who lives (and goes out drinking in) quite a rough area. He said that if he's ever walking at night behind a lone female, he will catch her up and as he goes past say "All right?" just to stop her worrying. It took me quite a while to convince him this was not the right approach and he'd be better off hanging back or crossing the road!

Oh Jesus! My heart was pumping just reading that!!

On a much less serious note, but answering the OP's question, a senior man at my work told me I should meditate for an hour every morning before work. He knew that I'm a single mother with three kids to sort out for school, but somehow the penny hadn't dropped that by the time I get to work at 9am, I've basically already been at my other job for 2.5 hours.

I cycle to work. Out of curiosity I asked my boss who sometimes cycles to work what people say to him and how they react when they find out he's cycled to work that day. He looked super confused and said 'well done?'.

Meanwhile I always get the response 'ooh, you're brave, I couldn't do that!'

My boss is lovely though, and not at all clueless. I just used it as an example of where a normal part of women's lives goes unnoticed.

Me neither

@BocolateChiscuits

I cycle to work. Out of curiosity I asked my boss who sometimes cycles to work what people say to him and how they react when they find out he's cycled to work that day. He looked super confused and said 'well done?'.

Meanwhile I always get the response 'ooh, you're brave, I couldn't do that!'

My boss is lovely though, and not at all clueless. I just used it as an example of where a normal part of women's lives goes unnoticed.

I must move in very different circles, no one has ever called me brave for cycling anywhere - apart from if it's with reference to the weather.

This thread has prompted me to ask my son (22) about how he behaves at night if he sees a woman walking alone.

I had a long, fairly heated argument with my partner yesterday because he told me a story about a girl who reported him to HR when he offered her a free dessert in the hotel they both worked in at the time. She was young and new and didn't realise that the leftover desserts were shared amongst the staff.

Rather than say 'demon witch, poor you!', I explained how I thought her reaction was strong but that I understood how she might have misread the situation and that maybe she reacted that way due to past experience. He went on to say 'no, she was married, had a baby and was pregnant!' as if under those circumstances she suddenly didn't have to worry about advances/her personal safety.

According to him, she was a bad woman and a troublemaker. Apparently the fact that her husband didn't want the second baby, that she and her husband separated while she was pregnant and got back together after she had an abortion, was enough to confirm that theory 🤨.

His takeaway, after half a day arguing, is that I always side with the woman and say they're the victim when in fact it's the poor men who fall victim to their malicious lies.

My takeaway is that he and I are not compatible.

He didn't get reprimanded whatsoever, by the way, but the hotel decided to stop handing out the leftover desserts.

I run in the dark alone and feel safe. Live in a normal area.

I run in my break on night shifts sometimes at 2/3am in areas I don't know that well. I just have my music down a little.

The male violence I've been on the receiving end of was all in my own home - so maybe that's skewed my thinking.

I have to walk home from the train station regularly at odd hours, so I'm just used to be out alone in the dark I think.

At work I'm on my own all the time. If a situation occurs, I have to go deal with it alone.

@Tigertigertigertiger

What a nasty subject for a thread.

Somewhere men are probably discussing “ let’s hear your examples of how women just don’t get it “. And that’s ok, is it ?

What the hell is wrong with you? Why do you think there’s something wrong with women discussing this?

@AsYouWishButtercup thanks for starting this thread. During lockdown I was with my DC and we explored our area for our exercise hour, finding new walks. When my partner locked down with us for the latter part (he was alone for first part), I realised that on joint walks I didn't check my phone was working in my hand constantly, that we didn't stop at the part near houses and loop back via pavements, but instead we explored the silent wooded areas. Walking with a male partner I completely relaxed.

I explained this to him, and he said he didn't like to walk at night if it was near pubs and there were groups of drunk men about. He just didn't get it.

Oh, another thing - when a guy is hitting on you and then your boyfriend/husband comes over and the guy immediately apologises to your boyfriend/husband because ‘I didn’t realise she was with someone’. This has happened so many times over the years and DH has previously pretended to be the boyfriend of female mates in order to stop it happening. But he just accepts it as the way things are. He doesn’t get how truly depressing it is to be treated like a chair that someone wanted to take before realising someone else was sat there…

(FWIW I’m not complaining about people approaching you, we’ve all got to try and meet people somewhere! Just the ‘oh, ‘it’ belongs to a guy, I’ll apologise to him’ )

DH doesn’t get why I don’t like getting a taxi home on my own after a night out or why, if I’m with a group of women, the last one out of the taxi calls one of the others to let them know she’s safe. I’ve been doing that for 25 years (it’s basic bloody safety) and he finds it totally odd, because it has never crossed his mind he might be attacked by a taxi driver!!

@ArsenicNLace

But statistics show that men are more likely to be victims of violent crime than women outside the home (figures reversed for inside the home). Men make up the majority of murder victims so why don't men feel the same concerns and alter their behaviour the same way a lot of women seem to? How many young men have been murdered on the streets of London in the past few years compared to women? Genuine question?

1) they are generally stronger than women so if they are attacked it is more likely to be a fair fight

2. If they are attacked they will be believed not criticized for where they were or what they wore

3. An attack is unlikely to be sexual

4. I have yet to hear of a man being murdered because they are a man, no other reason.

Off the subject of personal safety- I once had an experience with an ex - he was self appointed 'good guy' and very woke.

I came home one day from work and told him how this new guy was very patronising and sexist and had put me down a couple of times.

My ex had NEVER met him at all yet said " I'm sure he didn't mean it like that"
He was defending a man he had never met, and disregarding the woman he lived with- despite the fact that I have not been prone to seeing offence everywhere.
It was a small thing but it really highlighted to me how he thought.
Add to that other bigger things like not ever tackling his friends borderline rape of women, porn and escort use and secretly hiding his own interest in this- all wrapped up in a good guy persona

@ArsenicNLace

But statistics show that men are more likely to be victims of violent crime than women outside the home (figures reversed for inside the home). Men make up the majority of murder victims so why don't men feel the same concerns and alter their behaviour the same way a lot of women seem to? How many young men have been murdered on the streets of London in the past few years compared to women? Genuine question?

Although it does happens, men are less likely to be killed at random as women are.

A huge portion of murdered men are killed by friends and family in drunken or drug fuelled arguments, killed as a result of criminal activity (postcode wars, drug dealing, gang rivalries) or over money (family or business).

There are tragic cases where young men are killed because they are related to gang members or because of mistaken identity, but these are rare.

Men are more likely to get into situations where they overestimate their ability to 'handle themselves'.

@Isonthecase

I had to explain in an official HR investigation why I took someone at work threatening me extremely seriously despite it being a bit of a vague threat and was now refusing to be in the same room as him alone. Because he threatened me and he's physically much stronger than me so I feel unsafe? The man doing the investigation just didn't seem to understand why I was so worried but the women got it.

I had this too. With my boss then explaining that the man concerned was “OK because he is a good bloke” and that he was going through a divorce, so it was completely understandable that he was angry with women.

Re: personal space. I was in an aisle seat of a bus once and the man next to me decided that rather than ask me to move so he could get out, he would push down on my head to vault over my legs - it really hurt!

When leaving busy spaces to enter busy spaces, I note men tend to walk straight on and face people, women often wait or turn away from others. In clubs this used to be the area men stood to push and grab women. I remember pushing one away once and he fell back. I left quickly as I knew I'd be blamed for pushing, not him for touching me. Men don't experience women touching them like this, in clubs, pubs, buses etc.

Dumbitdown I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but why was she offended that your partner offered her a dessert to the extent that she complained to HR? Was it the 'stealing' aspect and/or the fact that she thought he wanted something in return, so to speak? I'm confused.

@Tigertigertigertiger

What a nasty subject for a thread.

Somewhere men are probably discussing “ let’s hear your examples of how women just don’t get it “. And that’s ok, is it ?

I saw a really good comment on a similar thread -

You can defend them as much as you want- they still hate you

On a thread about a murdered woman posters are still saying “what about the men”. Sod the men. This post, just for once is about women feeling vulnerable. Yes my 19 son my get beaten up in a bar or football match. But he gives no thought to going for a run at night, getting drunk, using a taxi, going on a blind date or even catching the last night bus home. I do. All the time. My partner worries about me. My son worries about me. All try to restrict (contain) my freedom which men do not worry about.

To be honest, I worry more about my son walking home from school than going out running at night. Neither dh nor I will go past where the big groups of teens congregate. It's not worth it.

It's those same groups that concern me when my skinny, odd looking yr7 boy walks home. But they're still male. Just working in a pack.

I've worked with teens a long time. I think attitudes become entrenched there. So many boys really, really don't get it. It can be quite breathtaking to experience the pure misogyny of a 14 year old who, despite your years of experience and expertise, knows fuck all cos his dad says.....

My teen DD has a brother she gets on with (my DS), has a boyfriend, a dad, and gets on well with my partner.

Recently she said, "wouldn't it be nice if just for a night men were on Mars, women could go anywhere and do anything?". This isn't a reflection on all men - the ones she loves - it reflects predatory males.

My DS is never going to say that is he?

I'm an unremarkable middle aged woman and I've joked before that I now have an "invisibility cloak" which can both be useful but also a problem, as I'm often entirely overlooked in restaurants/bars/any other public space. Men don't get it at all.