Your examples of how men just don’t *get it*

[AsYouWishButtercup]

What are your examples of how men just don’t get What life is like for women?

Mine was a dad at school drop off today who asked if I was still training for a half marathon. I said no as I’ve just had surgery but TBH it it nigh-on impossible to train in winter outside because of the dark nights and by the time I leave work it’s too dark to start a run

He said “Why don’t you just invest in a head torch” when I explained it’s not the lack of light that’s the problem, it’s the danger of being attacked, it seems the thought had NEVER occurred to him that women have to factor these things into everyday life. I’m constantly amazed that men are surprised by these things.

The personal space is interesting as my partner and I both like to cook and jostle each other to stir food etc. Despite me being v short and him being over 6ft, big build, I don't feel intimidated by him, we joke about dancing around each other, if he accidentally backs into me he apologises, if he sees me waiting to head to the bin he'll stand back. I have had far smaller build men make me feel very in the way and aware of being short.

When I tell him how it is for women, I think he partly doesn't get it as it's not something he does. However, he tells me the times he has challenged behaviour at work if negative comments have been made about women.

I can relate to the kitchen thing.

That's why I am not in the kitchen at the same time tha DH. Too small and he has no awareness. Whihc then means I am getting reseentful. Better for me to to be there.

@TheOrigRights

This thread has prompted me to ask my son (22) about how he behaves at night if he sees a woman walking alone.

Replying to my own post.

Response from my son: "I'd be aware that the woman might be uncomfortable and try cross over the road or something if possible or just try not to be like walking behind them for too long"

I think that's appropriate.

My husband once blocked my way into the kitchen. We had a newborn who I was breastfeeding and he was cooking and telling me to sit down and rest. I tried to go into the kitchen to help him and he stood in the doorway with his arms up saying “I’ve got it under control. Please just relax and rest”
I burst into tears. Probably more linked to postpartum hormones but I just felt so feeble and helpless realising I wouldn’t ever have a prayer of getting past him.

The only man I’ve heard talk about taking up space is Richard Osman. I think it was more in a work setting but he’s very aware given his height and build he can take over a room when he walks in, even if he’s just there to listen and not be in charge so he tries to be less in those situations.

Would suggest Lookingoutside put word "generally" before "killing".
For my part-having had to make deliveries on cold and dark nights, I am all in favour of "light pollution."

@marktayloruk that's a bit confusing. I get your point on lighting. When younger and I didn't have a car, I would walk in the middle of roads, alarm in one hand and phone in the other, as it was usually brighter and safer not to be next to cars.

*Next to parked cars as pavements narrow.

Reading these I'm starting to think the reason I don't think about safety when going out is because all the bad stuff happened at home and when I was little my dad wanted a boy so I was brought up to be like one. I never cry and going out by myself doesn't bother me at all as I was never told it was dangerous. I've luckily never been catcalled or touched when out and about. As I say the only bad stuff to happen to me was with my ex which is why I used to go walking in the early hours or late at night as it was better than being raped at home.

blessed

It’s sad and unbelievable that someone said that living in fear is a choice. When I was 18 I was sexually assaulted by a black cab driver on my way home from a night out.
Friend was walking in broad daylight a few years ago to the post office dragged down the back of a street and raped on Christmas Eve. Co worker was smashed round the head and robbed at 6:45 in the evening walking the dog in the park last year. Niece was followed home by a 25 year old man 4 weeks ago. She is 16. He was basically given a ride home by the police as no crime committed.. she jumped the fence and fractured her ankle is absolute panic. That’s all I can think of for now but there’s more.
Women die everyday doing nothing but not living in fear.

@Tonkerbea

There was a really interesting R4 programme on this today, give it a listen if you get chance. It included poetry and I think one of the people behind Take Back the Streets.

It mentioned how even in Primary Schools boys take up space differently, which reminded me my daughter's school have a rota for the football pitch to ensure the girls get a look in, or the boys dominate.

This male perceived 'right' to space starts frighteningly early.

My husband jokes he's always getting in my way (we both WFH).Nothing OTT, like following me into rooms to hang out when I want down time, like that other thread. It's more if I move to, say, the bin and he is headed to something near the bin, he'll not read my body language and he'll just stride to where he needs to be. I don't know if I'm explaining it well, but it's really starting to piss me off because it's like he's assuming right of way, to use a driving analogy.

My dh does this sort of thing, standing in the way, unloading the dishwasher when I've just started dinner so it's impossible to move freely through the kitchen, and something a bit harder to articulate is how he's trying to integrate himself into home life since wfh. In an effort to be helpful he sort of grabs 'my' chores (the things I've always done in the house) and half-does them quickly, so when I go to do them they're not where I left them, or half a load of laundry has been done but none of the most important things. So it's as though half my jobs are half done, but I have to work out which half (sometimes waiting to ask him while he's on a work call in his study) and reorder my schedule accordingly, and I feel slightly undermined, like he thinks it's all so easy. And I feel I have to be gentle and mindful of the way I address it because he's 'being helpful'. It's making me murderous.

It's like his life has solid boundaries - he works undisturbed in his study until he decides to come out to eat, to chat etc - but my life is permeable, it can be breezed in and out of when he feels like it.

Normally we get on really well and he's a helpful and thoughtful partner, it's just this constant togetherness doesn't seem to have the same consequences for him as it does for me.

I'm also in the middle of trying to arrange a meetup with another couple and it's too complicated to explain fully but it's like I'm expected to be the social director and tie it all up in a bow, which I'm dealing with at the moment because dh has so many work-related things to deal with and a group chat with the other couple will drive him nuts. So it's driving me nuts instead.

I remember a male friend of my older sister’s saying that he didn’t appreciate how women felt all the time until he had a back operation and wasn’t physically able to defend himself for the first time.

It's like his life has solid boundaries but my life is permeable, it can be breezed in and out of when he feels like it.

This is a brilliant way of putting it.

I've walked home using the middle of the road rather than get a taxi. How bad is it when you feel more vulnerable in a taxi. Got fed up with drivers asking if I'm married and is he home.

@AntAndDecking

It's like his life has solid boundaries but my life is permeable, it can be breezed in and out of when he feels like it.

This is a brilliant way of putting it.

Totally agree, you've really hit the nail on the head, that sentence really resonates with my experience.

I agree women are expected to be flexible against solid male boundaries.

When Covid lockdowns happened my exH told our DCs that he needed to WFH all day so on his two weekdays with them per fortnight (and his weekend), they didn't need to do school work as "that's your mother's (my) job". I still had to WFH, but like many women I knew I'd have to do both so my day started at 7am and I worked until 11pm. He has flexi time and they would have benefitted from his time, but he decided it should be my time and not his.

My neighbours ex has the children on a Friday overnight that way he doesn't have to pay maintenance. She works he works but any time the children are ill or need to go to appointments it's always her. HE IS DOING HIS SHARE!

@Lookingoutside

Exactly! It is male violence whether male on female or male on male!

@Tonkerbea

There was a really interesting R4 programme on this today, give it a listen if you get chance. It included poetry and I think one of the people behind Take Back the Streets.

It mentioned how even in Primary Schools boys take up space differently, which reminded me my daughter's school have a rota for the football pitch to ensure the girls get a look in, or the boys dominate.

This male perceived 'right' to space starts frighteningly early.

My husband jokes he's always getting in my way (we both WFH).Nothing OTT, like following me into rooms to hang out when I want down time, like that other thread. It's more if I move to, say, the bin and he is headed to something near the bin, he'll not read my body language and he'll just stride to where he needs to be. I don't know if I'm explaining it well, but it's really starting to piss me off because it's like he's assuming right of way, to use a driving analogy.

I know exactly what you mean. (Pre Covid, going to the office 5 days a week in London) I used to feel like commuting was doing battle - fighting my way through incredibly crowded streets and Waterloo train station, felt like I was constantly weaving in and out to not get shoulder barged by people (men) just striding forward on their set path. I am v short and often wonder what a different experience in crowds my 6' plus DH has, he just strides along his chosen path. There was a period I was on crutches after an accident and I found it astonishing the number of people (men) still expected ME to alter my course to not bump into them, at that point I just stood my ground and made them move out the way. I feel like without the crutches though I would end up getting shoulder barged.

(And I feel my DH also has a knack of being in my way in the kitchen! I gently nudged him to one side the other day though, jokingly, and he got all uppity! - men REALLY do take up space differently to us / have this assumption of their right to occupy the space they're in).

"I don’t think many men get how much stronger they are than women. Some men I know ask why women can’t fight men off in an attack."

"I partly blame tv programmes where you have women police easily running, catching & bro ging down male suspects."

I agree. Those sort of storylines are so patronising. A sort of Home Alone for women. We should celebrate the fact were less violent so try and portray women as having an immediate violent reaction to male aggression. Most women freeze when faced with an attacker. It's not fight or flight...it's usually freeze.
On another note, my DH always walks on the other side of the road when he's it's dark and there's a lone woman nearby. We live in South London and and we both know too many women who've been attacked. In fact I personally know very few women who haven't experienced some type of sexual assault. Some incredibly serious and one in her own home with her young daughter present. We neither of us take the safety of women for granted.