Page 7 | Your examples of how men just don’t *get it*

ecoanxiety · 17/01/2022 23:33

I hate going to the bar on a pub. Every single time I've gone a man had chatted to me and made sexual comments and/or touched me. On the hip, small of my back, worse. DH thinks I'm lazy but even when I've explained to him he doesn't get it.

Similarly he thinks I'm lazy for not going to the shop after dark. We love in a bad neighbourhood. Groups of men drinking outside the shop.
Lots of stabbings
Gun crime knife crime. Setting fires.

Not to mention we lived in a block of flats and a girl was raped in the lift a few blocks down. He passed homeless guys himself on the stairwells junked up with needles everywhere. But he thinks I'm not going to be raped again

My sister was dragged into a car and thankfully squirmed away. She was followed into her home too by a guy. My other sister was followed when she was only a beirn by a dirty old perv. Then when she finally reached adolescence another younger perv started following her home. My dad didn't get how it was bad either.

I did try to explain to DH that he might not want to go to a bar if more than once a strange man has rubbed his hard dick against his hip... suddenly he felt too uncomfortable to finish the conversation as he's not gay.

They really don't get it.

I could talk for days about my own mothers experiences but she was a baby and was targeted by several men over her lifetime. Known, unknown, family, friends. All the same. Much too distressing. nobody liked it when she finally spoke up about it in her late 40s. she never tried again but her whole family branded her a liar so as many women who are happy sharing on here, it's harder in real life to share these experiences with men because they just think we are being mean and "a feminist"

Another one, my friend saw me walking home at night. He thought it would be funny to put his hood up and not acknowledge me and then grab me when I walked past. Fucking shat me up. I'd been raped by a family member not too long before and started working out at night, thinking about what i would do if I was ever in that position again. I froze and he was upset that I didn't find it as funny as him. Funny enough he hadn't even thought to do that to a male. wonder why

Tigertigertigertiger · 17/01/2022 23:36

What a nasty subject for a thread.

Somewhere men are probably discussing “ let’s hear your examples of how women just don’t get it “. And that’s ok, is it ?

Interrobanger · 17/01/2022 23:40

@Tigertigertigertiger

What a nasty subject for a thread.

Somewhere men are probably discussing “ let’s hear your examples of how women just don’t get it “. And that’s ok, is it ?

Why wouldn’t it be okay?

Original poster

AsYouWishButtercup · 17/01/2022 23:40

@KatharinaRosalie

"But I would love it if strange women would hit on me and compliment me!"

If they say this reply with “What about a great big 6ft6 predatory gay man - would you like him to come on to you?” And see what they say.

OP posts:

Lolamento · 17/01/2022 23:44

I can see your point. Being brave does not mean you will not be attacked. It should be that women can live and do normal things without fear or risk but unfortunately it is not the case.

Original poster

AsYouWishButtercup · 17/01/2022 23:48

@Tigertigertigertiger

What a nasty subject for a thread.

Somewhere men are probably discussing “ let’s hear your examples of how women just don’t get it “. And that’s ok, is it ?

Pick me, pick me!

OP posts:

SantaHat · 18/01/2022 00:02

What a nasty subject for a thread

Ah yes, we should only be talking about flowers and puppies

Your examples of how men just don’t *get it*

ecoanxiety · 18/01/2022 00:06

[quote Echobelly]@VaddaABeetch - I agree about the strength thing.

Men ask women why they didn't call out/fight back against an attacker -uhm, cos I'm 5ft1 and even an average size and fitness bloke could overpower me easily, I probably wouldn't yell or fight back because I'd be worried that I'd just piss my attacker off and he might maim or kill me.

I also think this whole idea of a woman must fight back is based on a few misogynist ideas with a long history:

it's not that it's expected a woman can overpower a man but that she has to try to in order to 'prove' she wasn't 'willing'. If someone hears her shout or finds wounds on the attacker, that lends her some credibility as 'innocent victim'; and
a woman's 'chastity' is so important that she's actually better off dead than raped and therefore 'damaged goods' for any other man, so she should fight back even it means her death because then at least she'll be a 'chaste' corpse.

These of course sound obscene when put that way, but honestly society still doesn't seem to have got over these ideas, so ingrained are they - starts right there with the Old Testament, and I'm sure is older than that.[/quote]
This is so true.
when I was raped at 15 I had no experience of sex and decided it'd be easier and safer for me to be raped than possibly beaten and then raped anyway. I was alone and in a park he could have killed me and hid my body very easily.
I remember thinking sex only lasts about 5 minutes because of all of the jokes about premature ejaculation on TV. I was gutted when I lasted hours.

I was a virgin at the time and he told everyone I had tricked him (a grown man) into believing we were meant meant be. I was putting isherwood so badly And my mam was the only person who said actually its rape. she was clearly raped. Even the women in the family had a go at her. I was so ashamed and embarrassed that I just agreed by omission to it being consensual. I didn't want to be marked as damaged goods. and i certainly didn't want to be the reason my family ripped apart. especially as its well known rapists go free and the raped are slags

years later I told my dad I didn't want to go to a party if he was there and he told me off because I had sex with him so I must have liked him.
I was a child dad and a virgin and I fucking wish I'd kicked you out of my house you idiot. he had seen me have my first kiss at 15 a couple of weeks before. how could he not fucking see that I was just a child still? and this man wasn't tricked by me!

ecoanxiety · 18/01/2022 00:16

@KatharinaRosalie

"But I would love it if strange women would hit on me and compliment me!"

Ask would they love it if strange men hit on them?

Snoozer11 · 18/01/2022 00:20

@RB68

I was at the gym and moaned about the rise in parking fees (gone up to 2.50 for 2hrs in a smallish town and really no necessity for that level of charging). There is still a walk from SP to the actual gym and its not well lit, goes behind a number of houses with the main (general) park to the open right hand side, again not well lit. Gym person said oh its free after 6pm so thats ok.... errr I just gave him the side eye and said yeah but its dark and not well lit and I just don't take risks like that sorry. He was really taken aback and suprised. I just eye rolled

Is the side eye and eye rolling really necessary?

Binglebong · 18/01/2022 00:48

Visiting a male relative in London. He's tall and muscley, I'm short and fat. I can't remember why but we were separated on the tube when a slighted dodgy seeming begger came on. As I watched the relaxed way they chatted while I avoided eye contact I realised that however good a man my relative is he would never really get it.

I do walk in the dark with my dog, I'm in a nice area. But I stay well lit, with lead or ball thrower as a weapon. I don't consciously plan this it's automatic.

MaybeHeIsMyCat · 18/01/2022 01:03

My dad didn't get it until Sarah everard was in the news
I was saying what if you're having a problem with a group of men being intimidating, who do you go to if you feel unsafe
He said "the police. Oh"
It was like the penny just dropped

Lalliella · 18/01/2022 01:09

YANBU. I was on a work night out with a colleague and was saying how I’d got DH to drop me off and I’d get a cab home. He asked why didn’t I park in Xyz deserted dark multi-storey car park with piss and weed smell in the stair wells. I just said tell me you’re a man without actually saying you’re a man.

Puffalicious · 18/01/2022 01:17

This is another thing - men giving road rage, hurling is it’s to women in the street etc. once I overtook a cyclist with loads of room, and he followed and confronted me in Asda car park saying I was too close. He showed me his helmet footage - I wasn’t too close at all. I said to him what I always say to these men - “If I was a 6 foot 4 burly bloke would you be approaching me or is it just women you pick on”. Watch them have a tantrum!

OP similar happened to me. No footage but caught up with me at traffic lights and gave me a barrage of abuse. I was driving a convertible n summer so couldn't ignore him. When I politely disagreed and stated that he wouldn't be abusing me if I was male he responded ' Abuse? Abuse? I'll give you abuse!Nice car (it's old) shame you can't drive it. Your boobs get in the way?' He then gestured to a male pedestrian 'Look at me, I'm abusive! Can you imagine, someone's got to go home to that tonight?' meaning my DH had to put up with me! He spat 'that'.

I was livid and had tears of frustration as I drove away. I can still see his smug face. My DH was all for going out to find him and rip him apart! We compromised on if I ever saw him again I would call DH immediately and they could have a conversation. I never have.

It really beggar's belief.

MintJulia · 18/01/2022 01:17

To be fair, I run with a head torch around the local streets and have never had an issue so I can't blame him for that. I wouldn't let ds 13, run on his own. Maybe men 'get it' if they have children.

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 18/01/2022 01:28

When I was fifteen, my dad took me and my brother away for a week. We stayed in a grotty bnb with a shared toilet and bath on the floor below our room. The other bnb visitors seemed to all be lone males.
I was such bad company my dad had a tantrum and took us home claiming I was ungrateful and entitled after four days.
No. I was just terrified of going down to the floor below our room alone at night and in a morning to use the toilet or to wash.
My brother was telling my husband about how awful I was on that holiday and I told him, for the first time, what was really going on for me. They both admitted they wouldn’t have given it a second thought but now can see how I must have felt.

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 18/01/2022 01:32

There have been instances since where my husband has witnessed how men can be.
The worst was a delivery driver using my phone number to sexually harassed me (send me dick pics, tell me he had gone past the house and seen my husband’s van was out and did I want him to come over to keep me company).
He’s heard how men speak to me when they think I’m alone as opposed to when they can see he’s with me.
He’s now much more aware of what we face.

OhamIreally · 18/01/2022 04:09

[quote Em172]@MiladyBerserko

By men predominantly. That's irrelevant, though.

If the question is are women more likely to be murdered or the victims of assault then the answer is no. They're not. The sex of the person committing the crime makes no difference to the liklihood of the victim being male or female.

If the murder stats were exactly the same, i.e. 73% male, 27% female victims but most murderers were female instead of male would that make a difference? No.[/quote]

Interestingly however statistically men are more likely to be a murderer than to be murdered.

garlictwist · 18/01/2022 05:58

@AsYouWishButtercup

What are your examples of how men just don’t get What life is like for women?

Mine was a dad at school drop off today who asked if I was still training for a half marathon. I said no as I’ve just had surgery but TBH it it nigh-on impossible to train in winter outside because of the dark nights and by the time I leave work it’s too dark to start a run

He said “Why don’t you just invest in a head torch” when I explained it’s not the lack of light that’s the problem, it’s the danger of being attacked, it seems the thought had NEVER occurred to him that women have to factor these things into everyday life. I’m constantly amazed that men are surprised by these things.

I am a woman and run with a headtorch/when it's dark. It has never occurred to me that I might be attacked. Well, no more than any other time. I don't agree with your example here.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 18/01/2022 06:12

@ShadowPuppets

It’s not just about getting seriously attacked. I was walking through the park at dusk the other night and two teenage boys just shouted ‘fucking slag’ at me. And this is in a nice market town in the SE. I purposefully wasn’t wearing headphones to stay safe, and it’s just so fucking depressing. I felt a bit unsettled - because there were two of them and one of me, and it was getting dark and there was no one else around - I didn’t fear for my life but I was aware that they had the upper hand in that scenario so I was basically at their mercy. It’s as much that for me as the terrifying but slim prospect of a physical attack.

This resonated so much. Years ago I was walking, with my tiny baby in a pram, on a riverside walk about 8:15am and a group of 15-16 year old boys started following me and shouting the most revolting comments at me. They were in school uniform and just didn't give a shit. It was an incredibly threatening situation and all I could think about was getting my baby away from them.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 18/01/2022 06:16

@ArsenicNLace

But statistics show that men are more likely to be victims of violent crime than women outside the home (figures reversed for inside the home). Men make up the majority of murder victims so why don't men feel the same concerns and alter their behaviour the same way a lot of women seem to? How many young men have been murdered on the streets of London in the past few years compared to women? Genuine question?

Many, many male victims of male violence have done something or acted in a way to make them more vulnerable to violence - e.g. been violent themselves. There are very few male Ashling Murphys.

There is still random male violence against males but the difference in size and strength between men and women means women are so much likelier to be harmed than men.

ChaToilLeam · 18/01/2022 06:23

I live in a very nice area, with a large local park. DP walks through it at night, I don’t. A teenage girl was raped there a couple of years ago, and in the next neighborhood a woman walking her dog at night was attacked and strangled until she passed out. I will still go out at night but stick to very well lit streets and busier roads. I remember having to spell out to my boss when discussing my travel expenses that I can’t just book a cheaper hotel if the location isn’t good. That 20-30 quid per night difference is the difference between safety and danger for a lone female traveller.

faithfulbird20 · 18/01/2022 06:43

When we were kids my parents always told us off if we walked through narrow back alleys and wouldn't let us go outside in the dark. I am shocked at some of the responses on here. Especially the get a torch or light. It's not that we're scared of the dark but rapists, murderers and serial killers!

PissedOffNeighbour22 · 18/01/2022 06:56

It seems to have really surprised my DP the shit I've had to put up with from men from being around 5yrs old. I seem to have had 'victim' written across my forehead - it's like certain men can smell you've been a victim before and purposely seek you out. My friends didn't go through the same but I was tiny and quiet with no confidence so I was targeted more.

I grew up thinking my dad was overly strict and ridiculous about personal safety but I wish I'd confided in him more about my experiences. Instead I told my mum who didn't believe me. When I told her what a teacher at junior school was up to she sneered 'why would he be interested in You, don't be ridiculous, he's a lovely man and you're imagining things as usual'. Actually that lovely man was regularly sending me out of class and then following me to say/do inappropriate things.

This has come to the fore for me since we had a daughter and I'm remembering more and more of the sexual assaults and encounters I've had over the years. My DP does understand but I don't think he realised how often this stuff happens to some of us. He's a very small build and probably smaller than the average woman so looks a threat to no one. I doubt he truly understands how threatening the presence of some men can be.

After an assault where I tried to fight a man off and he was just laughing at my attempts, I put on a lot of weight to give me a better chance. I'm not sure my DP realises how helpless I feel as I still wouldn't stand a chance. My body weight is 50% higher than my DP's yet he'd be able to overpower me in seconds if he wanted to. It made me realise how lucky I was in that street assault as he could have done anything to me - he was recognised by a drunk girl walking past that I'd known from school who started taking the piss that I was 'getting off with a gypsy'. He left sharpish when she said his name. She didn't give a shit I was being assaulted though.

RobotValkyrie · 18/01/2022 07:09

Men make up the majority of murder victims so why don't men feel the same concerns and alter their behaviour the same way a lot of women seem to?

Men are also more prone to risk-taking behaviour (of all kinds: from driving dangerously to not washing their hands after going to the loo)
So they do go out and take shortcuts at night through dark alleyways and empty car parks, and disproportionately get mugged or worse as a result.
If women were taking as many risks as men, they'd get mugged as often (or more, by virtue of being more physically vulnerable?) as men do.

Also, regardless of murder stats, the vast majority of rape and sexual assault victim remain female (and there's far more of these than murders). Risk assessment is not just about "risk of getting killed", is it?