Parents are unreliable friends?

[FanGirlX]

My sister is 45, she was unable to have children due to infertility. Lovely sister, great auntie,

She has been running a group for child free people for about 5 years. They do hiking, camping, trips away, theatre, cinema, dinners. She has always said that it's difficult being childless from mid to late 30s onwards because most of your friends start to have children and are no longer free to socialise. So that's why she set up the group on meet-up, has made loads of friends and has a great time.

She told me today that there has been an influx of mid 40s women into the group, who have children in their teens. The group have voted to remove anyone who joins and turns out to have children, no matter how old the children are, reasons being:

The group is advertised as being for child free people

Parents trade in their friendships and social life for children, that's a choice they make but they can't expect to waltz into a ready made friends and activity group, once those children grow up develop their own social lives

Parents are unreliable friends

I told her that I can see why women whose children are growing up join - they've spent the last 15 years, or so, tending to their children and now they feel lonely now the kids are old enough not to need them. They don't have childcare responsibilities in the same way that they did when the children were younger. They see the group out doing fun things and think they'd like to join and have fun too. She said that she felt lonely in her 30s as her friends basically left her out because she couldn't have children, so she doesn't see why she should provide a social scene for mothers.

Is there really such a barrier between parents and non parents?

I'm childfree and on a couple of childfree online groups. Parents will eventually end up talking about their kids, it's what they do. As it's a group specifically for childfree people it's parents encroaching on that space because they feel entitled or just "assume" as their kids are grown that it's ok, but they're missing the whole point. If I'm with a friend I don't mind hearing about how her kids are doing, in fact I like it as long as the entire conversation isn't kid-related which it isn't. But I've had times when I've been out with a friend and she's ran into one of the other mummies from school and immediately they're talking about kid stuff and I feel left out. A childfree group should be just that.

@Snowiscold

Is the group membership properly explained? I think childless and child free mean very different things. Childless means never having had children. Child free means not having any childcare responsibilities, whether that is because the children have grown up, or another reason.

I’ve been reading with interest.

I think you are right to an extent. I think it’s a change in language. I think (from the posts on this thread) that “child free” is a term that has now evolved in use, by who do not and never have had children, to mean only this specific thing. Perhaps it should be “Child Free” rather than “child free”.

To people who use the term in that way it excludes the common English usage and should be used only according to their definition.

It also took me half a thread to realise that the group must be a Facebook Group, not just a collection of people who get together.

I’m a single parent and this happens quite a lot in single parent groups. I even went on a single parent holiday and two of the mums did have partners they just worked a lot. Which isn’t the same ( my ex was away several months of the year before we split so I have experienced the working away a lot).

I believe there is... a childhood friend whom didn't have children has since all but blocked anyone she knew who has children. One of my SILs whom didn't have children always talks about her best friends kids anytime I talk about my kids, her nephews ... totally ignores her nephews

@FanGirlX

OP was the wording clear, were the parents just trying it on?

I'm thinking maybe it's been a misinterpretation of the term "child free", from what I can grasp. Child free to my sister and the other group members means never having had children. It sounds like the newer members have interpreted "child free" as not currently having childcare responsibility.

I think that’s where the confusion arose, probably. Your sister is entirely right to stand by her wishes for the group, but it might save aggro/upset all round to clarify the wording, or to communicate more clearly with new members that membership is only for those without children, of whatever age. Yes

@Takeitonthechin

I believe there is... a childhood friend whom didn't have children has since all but blocked anyone she knew who has children. One of my SILs whom didn't have children always talks about her best friends kids anytime I talk about my kids, her nephews ... totally ignores her nephews

But there is a tendency of parents to define others in relation to their children. We see it in the OP - 'lovely sister, great auntie'. Your SIL's nephews are your children, yes? Perhaps she doesn't want every conversation to be about your children, and is mentioning her friend's child for some variety of topic.

I don’t believe parents are unreliable friends.

I absolutely believe, as a parent, that those whom wish to have a group with only non-parents should be able to have that dynamic respected.

I think your sister is quite right, if you set a group for a specific type of person then that is who should be a member. I mean I wouldn't want to be part of a parents group that was full of non-parents, giving useless advice and opinions on something they know nothing about for instance.

I do think perhaps though, as pp have suggested, that there can be confusion between people who see child free as someone who doesn't have children at all and someone who is no longer tied down by their children.

For instance I could go on a child free holiday as long as I didn't take my kids. No one would check whether I had ever given birth before they let me in the hotel.

My SIL didn't want kids, had them anyway, dragged them up and now they are teenagers has pretty much nothing to do with them. She considers herself child free now.

Yes, I do wonder if it has been interpreted as a child-free group, ie one you can't take children to, as opposed to a group for child-free women which is clearly a group for people who have never had children.

You or the women can set up their own group to include them and anyone without children if they want to.

Why shouldn’t your sister be able to have a group only for those without children if she wants to?

I too think it's totally reasonable for mums not to be allowed in. If it's for childless people then Mums can't relate, so shouldn't bd allowed to join the group.

You or the women can set up their own group to include them and anyone without children if they want to.

Why would I set up a group for these empty nester women?

@Fringellacoelebs

I am starting to realise there may be a barrier.

I am an older mum, had my first and only baby last year. I have tried hard to keep my friendships with my friends who don't have children as it is all of my oldest and closest friends and we all live far apart.
I don't send photos/mention my child unless asked, don't post much on SM, have met up without my husband and baby when we have been able to. But they are definitely drifting away from me despite my best efforts and I have wondered if it is because I am a painful reminder of what they don't have (and would like) and also that they assume things will be different now.

I see nothing wrong with a group for non parents only, the example above about a non pregnant woman going to an NCT group is a great one.

But it may not be a painful reminder of what they don't have.

Many people actively choose not to have children and have no interest in them.

I have several friends like this.

@VaulterTech

I see the reverse of the group situation too. We have a ‘this mum runs’ running group here, I run and many of my friends are in this group, some with small kids, some who’s children are in their 30’s now. But I can’t join and run with them as I don’t have kids which is totally fair enough. It’s actually quite refreshing to hear of a club the other way around!

This is true. It's like my sis showing up at the This Mum Runs group and saying I'm not a mum but I'm joining to run and I'm going to bring along some of my childfree friends and change it into a women's running group, instead of a mum's running group. That would come across as domineering, rude and entitled.

@nightmarelife

Christ this makes me cross:

Children = has children
No children = has no children

How hard is this to understand?

Exactly.

@Takeitonthechin

I believe there is... a childhood friend whom didn't have children has since all but blocked anyone she knew who has children. One of my SILs whom didn't have children always talks about her best friends kids anytime I talk about my kids, her nephews ... totally ignores her nephews

If she talks about her nephews, to you, the entire conversation will be yours. You want her to talk about the nephews, but I'm sure you don't want her opinion, her views on your parenting, any of the bad stuff.

As a pp said, you're viewing her based on children she doesn't have, just because she is their aunt does not mean she has to fawn over them. I'm sure she loved then, but their your kids to fawn over, not hers.

@RobotValkyrie

Reading this thread is a sad but useful eye-opener. It's quite obvious some people really do hate/resent/despise parents, and perceive them as an amorphous blob with no individuality, who always engages in the same stereotypical behaviours.

Obviously, by excluding this hated group from their social circle, they have no chance to ever be proven wrong: they live in an echo chamber which continously reinforces their own prejudices.

I guess we should be grateful that such individuals helpfully embrace a label which publicly highlights their narrowminded prejudices.
Still, a bit sad about all the missed opportunities for finding shared experiences despite our differences. Homogeneous groups are a bit dull.

How nauseating

The empty nesters could form their own group.

@RobotValkyrie

My sister owns a house in a nice area with good schools. When she bought it, the neighbours came round to introduce themselves (2 parents, 3 kids) and expressed surprise that she had bought that house. The reason being that because the area is safe with good schools then she should have let a family with young kids but the house. So, should child free / child less people only live in non safe areas? Surely, as a single woman, my sister has just as much right to live in a safe area?

I don't blame your sister one bit.
She is NBU.

Life on earth seems to set up so that single people have to mop up after children and families. By single, I mean single women of course, not single men. They seem to have 0 obligations.

I think she should keep on keeping on. The 40+ year old family women can surely do their own thing together.
Here's a thing - they could set up a club.

@RobotValkyrie

Reading this thread is a sad but useful eye-opener. It's quite obvious some people really do hate/resent/despise parents, and perceive them as an amorphous blob with no individuality, who always engages in the same stereotypical behaviours.

Obviously, by excluding this hated group from their social circle, they have no chance to ever be proven wrong: they live in an echo chamber which continously reinforces their own prejudices.

I guess we should be grateful that such individuals helpfully embrace a label which publicly highlights their narrowminded prejudices.
Still, a bit sad about all the missed opportunities for finding shared experiences despite our differences. Homogeneous groups are a bit dull.

Oh, jog on.

Always one.

Sister is not at all U to limit membership to women without any DC.

I don't think she is being unreasonable but the way she's expressed it makes her look like a bit of a twat.

@aSofaNearYou

I don't think she is being unreasonable but the way she's expressed it makes her look like a bit of a twat.

But her sister expressed it. So hearsay.

I would be Uber tactful disengaging though.

I do wonder how the group would handle LGBTQ + though

My BIL and SIL went through hell trying to have a baby it never happened, they had many friends through their hobbies, still do. They would back OPs sister, because for many decades it hurt so much