Parents are unreliable friends?

[FanGirlX]

My sister is 45, she was unable to have children due to infertility. Lovely sister, great auntie,

She has been running a group for child free people for about 5 years. They do hiking, camping, trips away, theatre, cinema, dinners. She has always said that it's difficult being childless from mid to late 30s onwards because most of your friends start to have children and are no longer free to socialise. So that's why she set up the group on meet-up, has made loads of friends and has a great time.

She told me today that there has been an influx of mid 40s women into the group, who have children in their teens. The group have voted to remove anyone who joins and turns out to have children, no matter how old the children are, reasons being:

The group is advertised as being for child free people

Parents trade in their friendships and social life for children, that's a choice they make but they can't expect to waltz into a ready made friends and activity group, once those children grow up develop their own social lives

Parents are unreliable friends

I told her that I can see why women whose children are growing up join - they've spent the last 15 years, or so, tending to their children and now they feel lonely now the kids are old enough not to need them. They don't have childcare responsibilities in the same way that they did when the children were younger. They see the group out doing fun things and think they'd like to join and have fun too. She said that she felt lonely in her 30s as her friends basically left her out because she couldn't have children, so she doesn't see why she should provide a social scene for mothers.

Is there really such a barrier between parents and non parents?

Child free is just a gentler way of saying childless, because it’s fucking painful for women who wanted to have children who couldn’t.

That’s not hard to grasp either.

I think it’s really bloody arrogant and insensitive to think you can join a group for childless women as a woman who has had children just because your caring responsibilities have reduced! For starters there will be women there because they couldnt have children and they should feel able to discuss that freely and share their experiences with each other. Having grown up children is a totally different life experience than never having had children. It’s not a child free hobby club for grown ups, it’s a hobby club for childless people. There’s a difference. For a reason.

The sisters group is for lonely people to make friends

My understanding is that it's for child free people to socialise with other childfree people.

I’m saddened that some posters don’t understand why this group needs to remain child free.

I’m totally on your sister’s side and think they need to change their marketing to make it crystal clear.

I think that women with children are inconsistent rather than unreliable friends.
They don’t prioritise friendships in their life because it’s all about their DC.

I have DC and 2 of my closest friends don’t have children. They are without a doubt THE most reliable friends I have.
As much as I love my friends with DC, they are flaky. It’s much harder to fit in meet-ups as they have so many other commitments.

That said, I don’t think women with DC should be allowed to join in with the group. It’s specifically for women without children. There are plenty of other groups.

[quote bonetiredwithtwins]@SallyGoLucky

It's really really not the same as your analogy

A mums and tots class is a specific activity to socialise mums and babies. Bit like you wouldn't join a cycling club if you didn't have a bike - you wouldn't join a mums and babies group without the baby

The sisters group is for lonely people to make friends - you can be lonely with and without children

however It would be interesting to know the exact wording of the group name [/quote]
So you're assuming those without children MUST be lonely?

Rather than just wishing to be surrounded by likeminded people, who don't talk about their children at any given opportunity.

The group is specially for people who do not have children. I don't get why that is so hard for you to understand.

Can’t people meet up and talk about non-child related subjects? There is more to anyone than whether they are a parent or not. Current affairs, art, film, local property development, travel, the weather, not worthy of a chat? I don’t spend all the time talking about my kids. Strange group.

I work in an office where everyone else is male so I have long since learned to never breathe a word about being a parent.

Its not like we are splitting all groups this way or all friendships. Its one group. I dont see the issue.

Can’t people meet up and talk about non-child related subjects? There is more to anyone than whether they are a parent or not. Current affairs, art, film, local property development, travel, the weather, not worthy of a chat?

That’s like asking why a group for people who have experienced depression can’t just let people who haven’t experienced depression in and just not talk about depression because there’s more to life than whether someone has been depressed or not.

@BitcherOfBlakiven

Urgh ffs.

It’s a group for women who don’t have children.

Doesn’t matter if the other women have children aged 2 or 32, they have children, so can’t join.

Nothing bitter about it.

Yes this!!!

@TorringtonDean

Can’t people meet up and talk about non-child related subjects? There is more to anyone than whether they are a parent or not. Current affairs, art, film, local property development, travel, the weather, not worthy of a chat? I don’t spend all the time talking about my kids. Strange group.

I work in an office where everyone else is male so I have long since learned to never breathe a word about being a parent.

Really???

@bonetiredwithtwins

She said that she felt lonely in her 30s as her friends basically left her out because she couldn't have children, so she doesn't see why she should provide a social scene for mothers.

She sounds bitter

What harm is it if an older parent whose children have long left home joins the group for company

She is punishing parent members of the group because of the way she perceived her friends treated when she was younger

The whole point of the group is that they are child less or child free. They simply don't want parents in the group. What is it that you don't understand about that?

@Branleuse

Its not like we are splitting all groups this way or all friendships. Its one group. I dont see the issue.

Exactly! There are lots of other hobby groups people with grown children can join.

OP was the wording clear, were the parents just trying it on?

I'm thinking maybe it's been a misinterpretation of the term "child free", from what I can grasp. Child free to my sister and the other group members means never having had children. It sounds like the newer members have interpreted "child free" as not currently having childcare responsibility.

[quote bonetiredwithtwins]@SallyGoLucky

It's really really not the same as your analogy

A mums and tots class is a specific activity to socialise mums and babies. Bit like you wouldn't join a cycling club if you didn't have a bike - you wouldn't join a mums and babies group without the baby

The sisters group is for lonely people to make friends - you can be lonely with and without children

however It would be interesting to know the exact wording of the group name [/quote]
No it's not full only people! It's for people who share a common experience which is that they don't have children.

@TorringtonDean

Can’t people meet up and talk about non-child related subjects? There is more to anyone than whether they are a parent or not. Current affairs, art, film, local property development, travel, the weather, not worthy of a chat? I don’t spend all the time talking about my kids. Strange group.

I work in an office where everyone else is male so I have long since learned to never breathe a word about being a parent.

That just isn't the point. It does not matter how much someone talks, or doesn't talk about their child, at the end of the day they have a child. Therefore they are not child free.

The group is for people who are child free. It's simple.

Seriously, it's pretty blatantly obvious that a lot of this group's purpose is to provide a comfortable environment for people who've been unable to have children. Who'd love to be able to talk about their kid's exams/uni/first boyfriend/upcoming wedding/grandchildren, but will never be able to. Others might join because they don't want children and are sick of people challenging them on why.

I think it's absolutely brilliant that OP's sis has created that space for them, and people on here claiming that she's bitter, or that there's no harm in people whose kids have flown the nest joining them, are spectacularly missing the point. FFS, can't they be allowed this?

Even you OP, don't seem to have thought that maybe your sister's comments about parents being flakey might actually be hiding the real reason that she wants to have this time around non-parents. Which could be to avoid conversations about something she'll never have.

I'm a parent and grandparent, widowed and living alone, and wouldn't dream of imposing myself on their group. If I feel lonely enough to join a group I'll choose the one I qualify to be a member of.

I think your sister needs to change the access permissions to the group, so in future people can't join until it has been confirmed they are childless/child free.

But yes, of course the group should just be for child free people, if that was the original intent.

I was childless for years, eventually having twins in my late-40s. Before I had kids, if I were in a child free group, I wouldn't want a mum joining, even if her kids were older. Parents should join a different group. Child free people need their own space.

People with kids talk about them all the time...would not be appropriate for the group.

I don't think this is anything to do with the reliability or otherwise of mothers, or their need for social lives.

It is about this being a special interest group for child-free and childless people, who want to share that common experience, whether only as a back-drop to their activities, or as a topic of conversation.

It's like a group for Christians, or vegetarians etc. that would not, should not welcome friendly agnostics or flexitarians.

Women who have had children and want to establish a 'nearly empty-nesters' group should do that. Or join any of the many other existing interest or activity groups available.

Women are free to say no. Including to other women.

@FanGirlX

She said that when her old friends had younger children they were always cancelling on one planned nights out because the child was sick, babysitter cancelled etc. That's why she considers parents to be unreliable as friends, she said she understands as children come first but it does mean that parents are more unreliable as friends than non parents. I said that sort of thing is less likely to happen when the children are old enough to be left in by themselves, so parents of older children will be less unreliable.

I do see her point. I've always known she runs the group but I think I'm a bit taken aback that she takes such a hard line on mother's, even if their kids have left home.

It's a shame that happened to her but maybe she just had bad friends. My friendship group has people like me who started their families 18 years ago and some who started 2 years ago. At no point was anyone left out and I never flaked out when kids were sick or whatever. DH was home with the children and my friendships were important.

I hadn't considered that the group bonded over their childless / child free experience though. That puts a different perspective on it.

Really? Well if was fairly fucking obvious wasn't it? She even told you. You are a great example of just why she feels such a group needs to exclude parents. Good for her. She sounds fab.

Can’t people meet up and talk about non-child related subjects?

Nope. It is impossible. Parents always end up talking about their children. It’s frustrating.

I couldn't have kids. I would have loved to, and I like hearing about friends' children. But somehow hearing them and people at work comparing notes on their kids makes me sad - this whole community I can't enter. No more complicated emotion than that, and I'd hate them to know that. I mean I read this site ...

I'm not a great joiner of groups but I think I'd join your sister's group. It wouldn't appeal at all with the addition of older mums with time on their hands, though I value plenty of women like this as friends in other contexts.