Parents are unreliable friends?

[FanGirlX]

My sister is 45, she was unable to have children due to infertility. Lovely sister, great auntie,

She has been running a group for child free people for about 5 years. They do hiking, camping, trips away, theatre, cinema, dinners. She has always said that it's difficult being childless from mid to late 30s onwards because most of your friends start to have children and are no longer free to socialise. So that's why she set up the group on meet-up, has made loads of friends and has a great time.

She told me today that there has been an influx of mid 40s women into the group, who have children in their teens. The group have voted to remove anyone who joins and turns out to have children, no matter how old the children are, reasons being:

The group is advertised as being for child free people

Parents trade in their friendships and social life for children, that's a choice they make but they can't expect to waltz into a ready made friends and activity group, once those children grow up develop their own social lives

Parents are unreliable friends

I told her that I can see why women whose children are growing up join - they've spent the last 15 years, or so, tending to their children and now they feel lonely now the kids are old enough not to need them. They don't have childcare responsibilities in the same way that they did when the children were younger. They see the group out doing fun things and think they'd like to join and have fun too. She said that she felt lonely in her 30s as her friends basically left her out because she couldn't have children, so she doesn't see why she should provide a social scene for mothers.

Is there really such a barrier between parents and non parents?

@ArbleMarchTFruitbat

(Just wondering how long it is before we get a poster on the thread asking why we childfree folk are on Mumsnet )

You forgot to put the ‘mums’ bit in block capitals, which those posters always do as if it’s a mic-drop moment. Why are you on MUMSnet if you don’t have children?

I think it's fair enough to keep the group for childfree women, surely if they have had to reject a few who wanted to join then there's perhaps a demand for a group for women who's children have left home- and one of the rejected can set it up if they want to. The rest of her statements I don't agree with.

Interesting. So people who don’t have children never have any crises that get in the way of meeting up? No elderly parents needing help, sick pets, broken down cars? It’s not like the people with kids make them ill deliberately to get out of social occasions.

I’m interested to discover that not having children can dominate a life just as much as having them.

Reading this thread is a sad but useful eye-opener.
It's quite obvious some people really do hate/resent/despise parents, and perceive them as an amorphous blob with no individuality, who always engages in the same stereotypical behaviours.

Obviously, by excluding this hated group from their social circle, they have no chance to ever be proven wrong: they live in an echo chamber which continously reinforces their own prejudices.

I guess we should be grateful that such individuals helpfully embrace a label which publicly highlights their narrowminded prejudices.
Still, a bit sad about all the missed opportunities for finding shared experiences despite our differences. Homogeneous groups are a bit dull.

Can they have a group called Nonesnet?

Don’t forget that not having children also rules you out of ever having grandchildren. Women who have adult children have the prospect of grandchildren to come. Once that happens priorities change again and time becomes taken up with young children again. I’m sure your sister doesn’t want women coming along to her group as a stop-gap and then just disappearing again once GC come along. This group is about having people to go on a journey with. The shared experience of childlessness and all that will mean now and in the future.

@RobotValkyrie

Reading this thread is a sad but useful eye-opener. It's quite obvious some people really do hate/resent/despise parents, and perceive them as an amorphous blob with no individuality, who always engages in the same stereotypical behaviours.

Obviously, by excluding this hated group from their social circle, they have no chance to ever be proven wrong: they live in an echo chamber which continously reinforces their own prejudices.

I guess we should be grateful that such individuals helpfully embrace a label which publicly highlights their narrowminded prejudices.
Still, a bit sad about all the missed opportunities for finding shared experiences despite our differences. Homogeneous groups are a bit dull.

I'm a parent but I think that's an incredibly unfair and ungenerous reading of what people have said. Lots of people have explained why spending at least some of their time with other child-free people and why they find that easier. There's nothing hateful about that. A few people have said they find people talking about their children dull - again, nothing hateful about that. I think people talking about their home improvements or gardens is unbelievably boring - makes me want to rip my own eyes out - but I don't 'hate' obsessive gardeners or DIYers, I just don't want to talk to them!

By the age group the OP describes the majority of people have children; any group that isn't explicitly child-free is likely to be mostly parents. Having a group that is for the child-free hardly leaves parents with nothing.

But this woman has already talked about her kids 😂 and to several group members by the sounds of it! If she had been able to refrain from mentioning her kids then presumably no one in the group would be any the wiser!

@RobotValkyrie

Reading this thread is a sad but useful eye-opener. It's quite obvious some people really do hate/resent/despise parents, and perceive them as an amorphous blob with no individuality, who always engages in the same stereotypical behaviours.

Obviously, by excluding this hated group from their social circle, they have no chance to ever be proven wrong: they live in an echo chamber which continously reinforces their own prejudices.

I guess we should be grateful that such individuals helpfully embrace a label which publicly highlights their narrowminded prejudices.
Still, a bit sad about all the missed opportunities for finding shared experiences despite our differences. Homogeneous groups are a bit dull.

I think you are being ridiculous. There are all sorts of clubs for all sorts of people and its pretty clear that many of these clubs are for a particular group of people. You wouldn’t expect a women in her 50s to join a ballet class for 5 year olds, just because they share the experience of loving ballet. You would expect her to find an adult ballet class….

It's quite obvious some people really do hate/resent/despise parents, and perceive them as an amorphous blob with no individuality, who always engages in the same stereotypical behaviours.

I can't see anything on the thread to support such a harsh assessment. Someone earlier used the analogy of a cycling club. I don't have a bike, know nothing about cycling - I would be very bored and out of place in a group for cyclists. That doesn't mean I hate/resent/despise cyclists or perceive them as an amorphous blob - I just recognise that, in a group, they'd have something in common from which I was excluded.

@RobotValkyrie A spectacular misunderstanding of the situation and of society as a whole in its attitudes towards parents and the child free.

I think your Sister founded a group for childless women to come to ,and be able to understand one another ,in a way that people with children cant . If you have DC you will always have them in your mind ,whether they are grown up or not! There seems to me to be a bit of a gap with middle aged women to meet up and have fun together, in a non sporty /hobby way or non sexual .

@RobotValkyrie

Reading this thread is a sad but useful eye-opener. It's quite obvious some people really do hate/resent/despise parents, and perceive them as an amorphous blob with no individuality, who always engages in the same stereotypical behaviours.

Obviously, by excluding this hated group from their social circle, they have no chance to ever be proven wrong: they live in an echo chamber which continously reinforces their own prejudices.

I guess we should be grateful that such individuals helpfully embrace a label which publicly highlights their narrowminded prejudices.
Still, a bit sad about all the missed opportunities for finding shared experiences despite our differences. Homogeneous groups are a bit dull.

There is SO much wrong with your post that I don't know where to start.

Childless women encounter those with children in every other area of their life. So your 'missed opportunities' element is total drivel. These people just want a coupe of hours a week where they can share their experience, and if infertility is their issue, not to have to put a brave face on it for those couple of hours.

This group is a rarity. Pretty much every other group is available to those like me, living alone but with adult children. Not for one second do I resent this one group in thousands not being for me.

They don't hate anyone. They simply want a space for themselves. The comparison someone made about a group for those with depression, is a good one. Why on earth would anyone resent not qualifying for membership of that? Why be offended if you can't join because you don't have depression?
Why be offended because you don't qualify for a group for infertile women (and those child free by choice)?

I have a kid and would probably love to join that group lol but its for people who don’t have kids. For whatever reason may have chosen to or not been able to but it means no-one is talking about kids etc. also even when they are adults or teens parents will normally drop everything for their kids. I absolutely accept I am a more unreliable friend since I had DD and get why childfree people would want to do their own thing. Tbh its cheeky and insensitive to join a group like this if you have children.

As a long time parent, I'm quite happy for childless people to have a group exclusively for them. It's childish to shriek "what about meee!" for anything for which you are fairly excluded. Sometimes it just isn't your turn.

@TorringtonDean

Interesting. So people who don’t have children never have any crises that get in the way of meeting up? No elderly parents needing help, sick pets, broken down cars? It’s not like the people with kids make them ill deliberately to get out of social occasions.

I’m interested to discover that not having children can dominate a life just as much as having them.

No, but as has been said a few times, everyone can have those crises. Parents also have the possibility (and it's a pretty big one) of things cropping up with children. So you are removing one possible source of unreliability from the equation. Fair enough.

And it's not only crises that can make parents less reliable. It's also priorities. I have found that parents will put their children first even when it's not a crisis. Can't go out tonight because now I have to drive my child somewhere. Can't do what we planned because my teen needs the car instead. Have to be home early because child has an exam tomorrow and needs support. Can't go away on the weekend now because it's the only day we can have a family day out. Can't do that weekend holiday because child is coming home from university now that weekend. Can't do Christmas meet-up because child and grandchildren are now arriving a few days in advance. etc.

I'm with your sister, I think it's very reasonable for groups to be for people with specific things in common. If all groups had to admit all people it would be very hard to find people to bond with over a specific issue or even talk freely about it with other people who just get it. The "not all parents are like that" thing doesn't wash, they might never mention their offspring but their life experience is totally different.

I agree with your sister. Kids and families are everywhere, let her and her friends enjoy their group away from all that! I say that as a mother

And it's not only crises that can make parents less reliable. It's also priorities

Exactly. I had surgery last year and needed to be collected from hospital as I’d had a GA. A friend of mine offered to do it. I was clear with her that I didn’t know what time I would be discharged so needed some flexibility. She said that was fine. Roll on the day in question and while I was back on the ward recovering suddenly she couldn’t do it as she needed to bring her son to football training. You know, the training that happens at the same time on the same day every week, which lots of his friends also attend so their parent could have brought him etc. I was left floundering trying to arrange an alternative lift in between puking my guts up and falling asleep.

I have 3 'best' mates - two with young children. Plus work friends with children.
They still try to meet up with me regularly but for coffee rather than going out at night. Which is fine because I still see them.
Sadly my single friend has become very nervous of Covid and won't go out at night now.
So my social life is pants right now.

Sadly I'm childless due to health problems and single.

I can see where she is coming from. Even those people with adult kids will be chatting about them and/or grandkids. To be honest though, the other women will likely split off into their own group

I see the reverse of the group situation too. We have a ‘this mum runs’ running group here, I run and many of my friends are in this group, some with small kids, some who’s children are in their 30’s now. But I can’t join and run with them as I don’t have kids which is totally fair enough. It’s actually quite refreshing to hear of a club the other way around!

Parents trade in their friendships and social life for children

This has not been the case for me. Quite the opposite. I've never had so many friends or social engagements now I'm a mother. Before, I was a bit of a loners

*loner