Can a father really just take the baby if there's no agreement for him to have them both?

[prettyingold]

DFriend has got herself into a terribly sticky situation and she's in bits... she knows I'm posting but she's very depressed by it all

DFriend spent a few months in another country outside of the EU for work. She had a bit of a love interest and the sex was a one off.. there's often quite a lot of waiting around before DTD as it's just not the norm to date and then have sex straight away, from what she says. So they're both a bit shocked it all came to be from a one off

DFriend is back in the UK now and she's pregnant. She's terrified but knows she wants to keep the baby.

She let the father know and he was a bit disappointed since they are not married, and would be expected to be. But then he came around within minutes and says she should return to him so they can be married and have the baby in his country.

She says she does not want to do that, she's staying here. He has told her that if she won't come back then he can have it arranged so that he keeps the baby and has sole custody. He claims he thinks this would be the case even if she gives birth in the UK

Thing is he didn't sound threatening, from what I heard. And things are worded differently when you're from other cultures so I don't think he's abusive.

She does say if he was in the UK she'd have liked to maybe have a relationship with him because he's very kind and polite, very trustworthy. Likes his culture. But she doesn't want to live outside of the UK

But, can he really do that? Obviously she will have to research this properly and get proper legal advice but is it really possible, anywhere?

I've said I'm pretty sure the UK would protect her and not allow this. I hope I'm right

Well it can't be that uncommon. I'm sure I've read that most pregnancies worldwide are overall unplanned. Given that people often go abroad and have sex with one off dates, surely it isn't all that uncommon at all

A word of warning. It’s very hard to get children back from abroad so once baby is born she should get a prohibitive steps order which means he can’t take the baby out of the country. I know it sounds drastic but it’s one of those rare but unbelievably awful, awful situations which you hope never happens but you take preventative action to avoid.

I would tell him I'd miscarried. Then I'd come off all social media and become as invisible as possible. I'm generally in the child has been a right to both parents camp, but if i thought for one moment that parent was going to take my child out the country and not return them I'd do anything to prevent it.

"She has a UK passport, she's English" - HELLOOOOOOO from everyone in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. We are not English.

If he's 39, I'd be surprised if he wasn't already married.

If she's going to keep the baby, it's probably best to ghost him.

I don't think the father would've threatened this if the mother didn't threaten it first, and that is confirmed due to the fact the father offered the mother to move to the country to be a family initially

@RantyAunty

If he's 39, I'd be surprised if he wasn't already married.

If she's going to keep the baby, it's probably best to ghost him.

But from what she's said and what I've read about Korea whilst looking at my thread, it would be most shameful to get someone pregnant like this if he's married, and shameful again even if not married. So why would he be wanting the child anywhere near him if he is married?

But I agree, 39 is a time you'd think someone has probably been married before, especially in a country where you're expected to

@FelinaDaHousecat

"She has a UK passport, she's English" - HELLOOOOOOO from everyone in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. We are not English.

If you're English you have a UK / British passport?

You have to be really naive to think that a threat is only a threat if it is delivered in a particular tone of voice. Seriously naive.

Similarly, whether someone is abusive is determined by acts of control and coercion, not by their delivery or appearing like a monster. Someone can be calm and "nice" but still abusive because they are coercive and controlling.

"If you do not do what I want, I will remove your baby from you" is a threat.

I would question the motives of anybody who twisting themselves into knots trying to present that as anything else (least of all as an act of kindness!).

No wonder people can't protect themselves from damaging situations when they are told that a threat delivered in a calm tone can't really be called a threat or that abuse is not abuse unless the person looks like a monster.

This is a threat. Making threats is not respectful or kind.

He has told her that if she won't come back then he can have it arranged so that he keeps the baby and has sole custody.

And she thinks he's "kind, polite and trustworthy"? What the fuck? It's really worrying that her judgement is this poor tbh.

From what I can gather from friend, a father abandoning his child and the mother is seen as very shameful in his country and people will be very clear about that to him

Ugh men who use this 'it's shameful in my culture' line when theyre faced with the consequences of doing something else shameful in their culture aka shagging before being married. Can't have it both ways.

DFriend is also saying now that she feels very sad for him as she thinks he'd make a lovely dad, and he's very sweet and caring

She's being an idiot. She needs to wise up before the baby arrives so she can protect it and make better decisions / show better judgement.

Men are expected to be stepping up and support their children.

If he actually wanted to do that then he'd have immediately suggested moving here so the mother of his child can have her existing support network around her as that's in the best interest of the baby. But he wants the baby as a status / 'good guy' symbol only if it's convenient and doesn't mean he has to compromise.

If I was her, 5/6 weeks gone aged 25 in this situation, not a chance I would be continuing the pregnancy but of course that's entirely her decision.

@NameChange8283

I don't think the father would've threatened this if the mother didn't threaten it first, and that is confirmed due to the fact the father offered the mother to move to the country to be a family initially

What are you on about?

"Offering" for a woman to uproot herself from her home, job, and support network to give birth and raise a child isolated in a foreign country with a stranger where she will never be able to leave with her child to return home - that's not an "offer" a decent man makes.

If you hear an "offer" like that and do not immediately have concerns then something is very wrong.

Tell her to definitely NOT put his name the birth certificate. If his name wasn't on the birth certificate and he took the child it would be child abduction. If she doesput his name on the birth certificate he automatically has P.R and could apply to the court for a child contact order.

And she thinks he's "kind, polite and trustworthy"? What the fuck? It's really worrying that her judgement is this poor tbh.

I have to agree. Op seems to share the same poor judgement though in fairness.

Superficial politeness is not the measure of someone's character, and treating it like it is is recipe for disaster.

I do think she should seek legal advice on this. I don't feel she should add him to the birth certificate (should he be present in the UK for registration around the baby's birth) and both she and baby should always remain domiciled in the UK (or outside of SKo) for protection.
However, I don't feel he should be excluded in terms of contact and from seeing the child (on visits to the UK) if he wants to be involved and it is safe to do so (no risk of abduction, for instance).
I say this as parent of a child with a non-British father (who has chosen not be involved). I would encourage contact between my child and her other parent if he was interested but I'd ensure we (my child and I) were legally protected first.
She needs legal protection and she needs to get a feel from this man about her raising the child in the UK.

@prettyingold

From what I can gather from friend, a father abandoning his child and the mother is seen as very shameful in his country and people will be very clear about that to him

I hope I’m wrong, but it sounds from this as though he’s less concerned about her and the baby than he is about what it might do to his reputation.

Is it any wonder some children are totally fucked up when they enter the world with backstories like this? No child deserves to be born into this soap opera.

I agree. It's just got car crash written all over it. Even if he tries his best to be an inolved and supportive dad from a distance, it's not going to be easy to have a proper father/child relationship given the logistical, geographical, language and cultural complications and it could be fraught with all sorts of problems and as time goes on.

The OP has been told in no uncertain terms that this man is clearly a 'misogynistic horror' who is controlling, aggressive, abusive and threatening, based on ONE SENTENCE that wasn't even his words verbatim and could have been interpreted in one of two ways anyway.
Yet the man speaks very little English and the OP said he sounded more worried than threatening.

But MN has spoken. This young woman should either cut all ties, shut down her social media accounts and go under cover, or lie and tell him she's had an abortion or a miscarriage, just in case he comes to London to steal her baby.

She's only 5-6 weeks PG and she's already told him (on speakerphone with her mate in the room ) that's how much time she's spent thinking the consequences of this through.

At no point has anyone seemed to consider how this might all feel for the child when it's old enough to start comprehending the consequences of whatever decisions this girl makes now. Poor kid won't have much chance of a meaningful relationship with its father either way, will it? Either he's going to be painted as someone that needed hiding from, or he is someone who needs hiding from.

But so long as the mother is exercising her right to have exactly what she wants, I suppose that's fine.

She doesn't have to name the father when registering the birth. She needs to think very carefully about whether she does that. Doing so would give him parental rights within this country.

Why would the situation be shameful for him, if he doesn't tell anyone? Or tells them she miscarried and they've both decided to put the relationship behind them.

His approach is completely 'all or nothing'; she's married and lives in his country (and the child stays there, whether she finds she wants to stay on in that country in future, or not), or, she stays here and cuts him out completely. Therefore she cannot trust this man, or his family or friends.

I would suggest, if he has no links no her family and friends, she tells him she's lost the baby, then cuts off all communication. She under no circumstances should put him on the birth certificate and she should apply for a British passport early on.

Honestly, I'd seriously consider an abortion in this situation. Could she live all her life with the thought that her child will be abducted? I know I couldn't. It'd drive me mad. If the father gets hold of the child, she possibly won't see them for years. That's the situation this man is in if she cuts contact. You'd stop at nothing to get your child back, right?

@stingofthebutterfly there's no point bringing up abortion when she wants to have the baby

the OP said he sounded more worried than threatening.

That is not how you determine whether somebody is making a threat. The content is the threat, not the tone.

[quote prettyingold]@stingofthebutterfly there's no point bringing up abortion when she wants to have the baby [/quote]
Abort this one then find a sperm donor if she's that desperate.

This has disaster written all over it. I just hope that I'm wrong and it doesn't come back to bite her in the arse.

@ftw163532

the OP said he sounded more worried than threatening.

That is not how you determine whether somebody is making a threat. The content is the threat, not the tone.

The issue with that is the communication barrier though

For what it's worth, I think DFriend should exercise extreme caution. But it's very hard to tell exactly what he means, English isn't fantastic (it's good but not great), and different tones etc mean different things in South Korea so hard to say even more so

She needs to get legal advice and protection. But although that will reduce the risk, children are still being taken by parents to another country and it can be hell on earth trying to get them back.

I don't care how unethical it is, if there is a genuine risk of him taking the baby then I would happily lie and tell him you lost it or that he's not the father.

@BoredZelda

Else she’s either going to have a baby without the dads knowledge, which is unfair to him

Him not taking precautions to prevent pregnancy is not her concern.

It is once she gets pregnant! What a ludicrous thing to say!