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Original poster

Can a father really just take the baby if there's no agreement for him to have them both?

249 replies

prettyingold · 12/12/2021 10:22

DFriend has got herself into a terribly sticky situation and she's in bits... she knows I'm posting but she's very depressed by it all

DFriend spent a few months in another country outside of the EU for work. She had a bit of a love interest and the sex was a one off.. there's often quite a lot of waiting around before DTD as it's just not the norm to date and then have sex straight away, from what she says. So they're both a bit shocked it all came to be from a one off

DFriend is back in the UK now and she's pregnant. She's terrified but knows she wants to keep the baby.

She let the father know and he was a bit disappointed since they are not married, and would be expected to be. But then he came around within minutes and says she should return to him so they can be married and have the baby in his country.

She says she does not want to do that, she's staying here. He has told her that if she won't come back then he can have it arranged so that he keeps the baby and has sole custody. He claims he thinks this would be the case even if she gives birth in the UK

Thing is he didn't sound threatening, from what I heard. And things are worded differently when you're from other cultures so I don't think he's abusive.

She does say if he was in the UK she'd have liked to maybe have a relationship with him because he's very kind and polite, very trustworthy. Likes his culture. But she doesn't want to live outside of the UK

But, can he really do that? Obviously she will have to research this properly and get proper legal advice but is it really possible, anywhere?

I've said I'm pretty sure the UK would protect her and not allow this. I hope I'm right

OP posts:
pianolessons1 · 12/12/2021 11:19

If your friend doesn't want a TOP I'd suggest she tells the man she's had a miscarriage.

Cherrysoup · 12/12/2021 11:20

If he doesn’t have her address, then she’s sorted. If I were her, I’d restrict contact to strictly phone only. Obviously, she absolutely mustn’t go back to Korea.

BoredZelda · 12/12/2021 11:22

For God's sake why on earth don't you just say what country it is instead of all this ridiculous hinting about the 'culture' and what is and isn't acceptable there?

For gods sake, what does it matter. The father could be from Mars, it still doesn’t change the answer to the question, he will not be able to rock up and legally remove the baby from its mother.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Families Family law
Original poster
prettyingold · 12/12/2021 11:23

I've done a bit of digging myself and it does seem that child support (not paying it), is currently not a criminal offence in South Korea

OP posts:
IAAP · 12/12/2021 11:24

She needs to move immediately back to U.K.

In her situation no marriage no divorce
Child is legally registered with her name. In her position I would change my name legally eg Emma Jones to Emma smith and delete all my social media. And then set up in my new name.

Same for job. Cut contact with mutual friends. Do not put him on the birth certificate.

Do not give birth in his country or put him on any documents. Hopefully he will leave her alone if it is so shameful

BoredZelda · 12/12/2021 11:24

Because he has the money apparently, and it seems all that's needed is for him to get his name on the birth certificate (via the courts)

Well, he’d need to know where your friend lives too.

She can easily cut contact with him.

NdujaWannaDance · 12/12/2021 11:24

She let the father know and he was a bit disappointed since they are not married, and would be expected to be. But then he came around within minutes and says she should return to him so they can be married and have the baby in his country.

She says she does not want to do that, she's staying here. He has told her that if she won't come back then he can have it arranged so that he keeps the baby and has sole custody. He claims he thinks this would be the case even if she gives birth in the UK

Right well I don't know enough about Korean culture to speak with any authority, but what this might be is him trying to do the right thing and be the 'gentleman' here because he's responsible? Perhaps it's culturally expected of him to at least offer marriage, even if he is hoping he'll be turned down.

And if she declines then perhaps to him, being an unmarried mother is sufficiently shaming that he's offering her the chance of handing the child over to him, so she can carry on her life free of stigma because no-one will know, and he can claim his child's mother died or something. Perhaps he can't get his head around the idea that a woman would choose to go into parenthood unmarried and alone because it's taboo in Korea, so it's his way of trying to find a solution? It may not be a threat to abuct this child at all. Just a thought.

Maybe if your friend says thanks but no thanks, I'm good to do this alone, he'll breath a sigh of relief and just move on, never to be heard from again.

But he has absolutely NO right to march into the UK and demand he's allowed to take his child back home to live, irrespective of where he's from.

NandorTheRelentless · 12/12/2021 11:25

@BoredZelda

For God's sake why on earth don't you just say what country it is instead of all this ridiculous hinting about the 'culture' and what is and isn't acceptable there?

For gods sake, what does it matter. The father could be from Mars, it still doesn’t change the answer to the question, he will not be able to rock up and legally remove the baby from its mother.

It matters because of the legal aspect, and to some degree the cultural one
PicsInRed · 12/12/2021 11:27

As they aren't married and he won't be present for the birth, he cannot go on the birth certificate at registration. He could apply later through court, but this would be complicated by the fact he lives, and always has lived, abroad. That's good for her and the baby as it means all parental responsibility remains with her.

She alone or/with the baby should never visit South Korea until the child is over the age of 18.

I echo posters who recommend informing the father that there has been a miscarriage. It might be enough to allay his shame and cause him to leave her alone.

I would then lock down social media until the child is 18. Post nothing, check in nowhere, like nothing. Ensure she is unable to be tagged and inform those who might tag her that you are off social media for safety reasons and that they mustn't mention her on their social media either.

If he knows where she lives, she should move.

She has a golden opportunity to protect herself and her child from over 18 years of threats, control and abuse. She would be an absoute fool not to grab that chance with both hands simply because this threatening man was occasionally nice.

NdujaWannaDance · 12/12/2021 11:27

For gods sake, what does it matter. The father could be from Mars, it still doesn’t change the answer to the question, he will not be able to rock up and legally remove the baby from its mother.

I disagree, I think it can be really useful in things like this to know what cultural expectations and behaviour patterns you are dealing with. For example if the father was from a Gulf Arab country I'd be giving very different advice indeed than if he was from New Zealand. It may make no difference in British law but it can make a hell of a difference should the father ever get that child back home for a 'visit to family.' That might be the last you see of them.

SnowWhitesSM · 12/12/2021 11:28

I think your friend needs to have a think about the baby in all of this. Personally I wouldn't have children with a man who wouldn't be around. I say that as someone with two dc who have a shit dad. I would never have another child unless I knew that that man would always be around for them.

I also think living in constant alert for kidnapping isn't going to help your friend attach and attune to her baby. She's going to be in survival mode and not be the best parent she is able to be.

If your friend carries through with this pregnancy then the baby isn't going to grow up feeling safe and connected. She needs to realise what that will mean.

needmoreshinys · 12/12/2021 11:30

I wouldn't lie to him about having a miscarriage, because at some point that lie is going to come and bite your friend on the arse and can you imagine explaining that to a child?

I dont have any experience, with this, but I would keep him updated, but not give things like address, phone number, last name (if he doesn't have that) I would have a phone and email for dealing directly with him about his child.

And I would certainly not leave the UK to go and visit him

Babyvenusplant · 12/12/2021 11:31

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

If he is that bothered about being a father to the baby, he should look to rent somewhere in London so he can facilitate some sort of regular visitation.

Why would your friend move countries at a time she is most vulnerable, to help a man who she barely knows, who has threatened to remove the baby from her?

If she does that, she is a fucking idiot.

I agree with all of this
BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 12/12/2021 11:32

A quick Google would suggest that in Korea the father is very unlikely to get full custody of a young child except in cases where the mother is incapable of looking after the child for some reason.

But Korean law is irrelevant so long as the child is born in the UK. The UK will be the child's usual place of residence and being removed from the UK would be illegal without the permission of the resident parent. Korea is a Hague country so the father would be in trouble if he kidnapped the child.

I know she has no intention of doing it, but she shouldn't give birth in Korea. She would not be able to take the child out of Korea if she does that and she could end up in a situation where she is deported as an illegal immigrant but the child stays.

He can take her to court to get his name on the birth cert if he chooses (and he can find her to issue court proceedings) but that won't allow him to take the child out of the country without her permission.

NdujaWannaDance · 12/12/2021 11:32

He travels here sometimes for business but hasn't for a few years (COVID)

But your friend has managed to travel to Korea during Covid? Confused

Lucked · 12/12/2021 11:33

I do not believe any British court is going to hand over a British born baby to a British mother who only spent a few months abroad and had a casual relationship.

What I think you friend should do is have a consultant on with a lawyer who has dealt with messy international child custody so she can be very clear on the do’s and don’t s and also so she is aware what legal channels are open to him and likely outcomes. Forewarned is forearmed.

Your friends needs to give her head a wobbled about any sort of relationship with this man. Her feelings may get in the way of her doing what is in the best interests of the baby.

Original poster
prettyingold · 12/12/2021 11:34

@NdujaWannaDance I have no idea of details here. Just what my friend is saying about her pregnancy

OP posts:
NumberTrain · 12/12/2021 11:35

My cousin has not seen her child in many years after she left her husband. They lived in Egypt and his rights were so much greater than hers. Even though the UK disagrees and the legal battle wages on the reality is time keeps moving on with them seperated. Do not take that child back to his country.

Original poster
prettyingold · 12/12/2021 11:36

Thank you for all suggestions. It does seem she's safe here in the UK anyway Thanks

I suppose I'd worry for her if she wanted to go on holiday with the baby (Not Korea). But how would he ever know?

Anyway, she's feeling a bit better within herself now it seems. Thanks again Smile

OP posts:
Lucked · 12/12/2021 11:38

Also is she 100% sure she wants to continue with this pregnancy, she is only 25 and this could be very stressful and impact on the rest of her life.

NdujaWannaDance · 12/12/2021 11:39

My cousin has not seen her child in many years after she left her husband. They lived in Egypt and his rights were so much greater than hers. Even though the UK disagrees and the legal battle wages on the reality is time keeps moving on with them seperated. Do not take that child back to his country.

This is exactly why it's very useful to know exactly what country we are dealing with here - the advice and risk level will vary accordingly.

diddl · 12/12/2021 11:39

So when she said that she wanted the baby in UK, his thought wasn't to see how he could be part of their lives, but to threaten to take the baby away?

If I were her I would give serious thought o whether or not keeping the baby is the best thing.

Yogaandcocoa · 12/12/2021 11:40

I actually think some peoples views towards a father's parental rights are disgusting.

Women fight for equal rights and yet when it comes to parenting think it's ok to freeze out the father.

StaplesCorner · 12/12/2021 11:42

Your friend sounds naive, and being so young and pregnant she is likely to get herself in a real mess here trying to accommodate this man. She must do whats best for her now. Maybe this guy is just panicking about some sort of "stigma" in his country but how would his family know unless he tells them?

Does she have a family, parents etc to help her? Or use the counselling service at the British Pregnancy advice service; not necessarily to talk about termination but to talk about how she feels.

RobinPenguins · 12/12/2021 11:43

@TraceyLacey

I wouldn't have the baby in this situation. I'd spend the rest of my life terrified and looking over my shoulder.
I agree with this, tbh.