Kyle Rittenhouse not guilty?

[weegiemum]

How? He shot 2 people dead in front of witnesses, but apparently it was "self defence"?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/19/kyle-rittenhouse-verdict-kenosha-shooting?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

I am sure there will be unrest hope I'm wrong.

Loads of people are understandably just past breaking point around all this.

The things I've read some USA republican politicians say are really goady as well.

@CheeseMmmm I'm British in Britain. It doesn't take that much effort to read the press in the USA and see from their reporting that the prosecution case was weak to start off with. This is probably one of the most important cases Kenosha has had and the DA decided not to prosecute himself, but to hand it off to his deputy. Shows how he didn't want his name attached to the case.

Reports of the case are everywhere, including on Wikipedia. The prosecution own witnesses gave evidence that backed up Rittenhouse's account and helped prove his case. Have a read - it doesn't take long.

The reporting in the uk has been dire. The Independent led with the fact that all three victims were black. Not true, they were all white. The ITN news made it sound like it was a miscarriage of justice but that could be because both President Biden and Vice President Harris had already said he was guilty before any evidence had even be presented. After the trial both of them condemned the verdict, and by virtue, the jury. Not how you'd hope or expect the country's two most senior politicians to behave. I've no doubt republicans would try capitalise on the verdict too. None of those politicians, Democrats or republicans are interested in the welfare of their country, only in the politicking for votes for the elections next year.

The President and the VP hold a bit of sway in the USA don't you think? If Trump had prejudged a trial in the same way - and he probably did - you'd be all over it, saying how disgusting it was, and that the executive should behave better than that. But because its Biden and Harris you give them a pass. But they seem to know as much about the case as you and all three of you seem happy to just state any old incorrect facts.

@madisonbridges, your 'facts' are all over the place here.

The comment that the president and VP hold a lot of sway is just plain silly. After the verdict, President Biden stated that the verdict must be accepted, and that the jury system works. There is unrest in a few cities in the US tonight, protests in others.

Biden commented on the Rittenhouse case before he was president. He characterised Rittenhouse as a white supremacist. He has yet to be proved wrong on that score. Certainly, white supremacists seem to have come out of the woodwork to support him. A case of lying down with dogs, getting up with fleas? It will be interesting to see whether Rittenhouse plans to join the right wing rally circuit, whether he allows his name and his experience to be used by the likes of Paul Gosar and right wing commentators as proof that Commies are taking over America.

Trump, otoh, questioned the validity of the entire election, incited a mob to charge the US Capitol, and stated after a woman was murdered by white supremacists in Charlottesville VA that there were many fine people on both sides of the protests that occurred on that day.

I don't think it's possible to compare apples with oranges.

You seem very outraged in your post of Sun 21-Nov-21 03:09:26 that people attacked a man with a gun who had shot and killed a man. These people were doing exactly what Kyle Rittenhouse said he was in Kenosha to do.

Kyle Rittenhouse had no business whatsoever going across the state line to Kenosha that night. There was unrest, and he was a silly, inexperienced, heavily armed teenager with a head full of nonsense off the internet. The people who supplied him with the weapon and ammunition and the ideology that motivated him should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

After the trial both of them condemned the verdict, and by virtue, the jury.

@madisonbridges
Bullshit. You are simply making that up.

thehill.com/homenews/administration/582394-biden-on-rittenhouse-verdict-the-jury-system-works

President Biden on Friday said he stands by the jury’s decision to acquit Kyle Rittenhouse, the teenager who fatally shot two protesters in Kenosha, Wis., and wounded a third.

“Well look, I stand by what the jury has concluded. The jury system works and we have to abide by it,” the president said when asked about the decision by reporters at the White House.

He said he had just heard about the verdict and didn’t watch the trial. He declined to directly comment on whether he stands by a tweet he sent as a presidential candidate that suggested Rittenhouse was a white supremacist.

In a statement released later on Friday, Biden said he, like "many Americans," feels “angry and concerned” about the verdict, but urged Americans to express their views on the outcome “peacefully.”

"We must acknowledge that the jury has spoken,” he said.

“I know that we’re not going to heal our country’s wounds overnight, but I remain steadfast in my commitment to do everything in my power to ensure that every American is treated equally, with fairness and dignity, under the law,” he added

'It doesn't take that much effort to read the press in the USA and see from their reporting that the prosecution case was weak to start off with.'

Why would the average Brit do that? It's a country 1000s miles away. Around the world loads is going on. And here there's all sorts of things as well.

Why on earth would any ordinary person here be following this closely? Just why?

Here we have gas, inflation, the whole thing with govt retrospectivrly changing rules, covid what's happening, NI brexit etc.. Europe there's plenty too.. One that springs to mind is Belarus.

Globally there's awful things happening all over the place.

Why on earth would the average Brit be closely following this? They wouldn't be and they aren't.

Why are you telling me to get more info? Why would I?

Are you following in detail all the stuff going on around the world?

I'm bogstandard and my opinion is this is a totally predictable verdict that will result in trouble. His actions were totally out of order and two are dead. Self defence my arse he had no reason to be there in first place charging about with a big gun.

That's why o find this thread strange. The level of info posters have and the certainty right decision. It's just not representative of UK public who in the main won't have much of an opinion at all, let alone reams of info and a really strong opinion.

At least that's how it feels to me.

It definitely feels that way to me too, @CheeseMmmm.

Plus the clear slant of many comments and gratuitous references to Trump.

But there is not a lot of actual info. There's quite a bit of misinformation.

The President holds no sway in a country where over 50% of people voted for him? He's the most powerful person in the western world and his words hold no sway? If a president's words hold no sway, I guess you were never bothered what trump saud either.

After the verdict Biden said, the verdict "will leave many Americans feeling angry and concerned, myself included" . That's saying the verdict is wrong. Yes, he said, "Look, I stand by what the jury has concluded. The jury system works, and we have to abide by it." But at the same time he was saying the jury was wrong which conveys the message to the country that the verdict was wrong. And if the verdict is wrong than naturally it follows that he thinks the jury is wrong. Kamala Harris also tweeted that the verdict was wrong.

When Trump was president I cared and criticised what he said and did. But he's not president so I don't care about him. But I do care what the current President says.

It's outrageous that anyone is allowed to wander streets with guns. Its obvious that if people take guns to protect themselves, then people are going to get shot. However my post you referred to had no outrage in it. It was a simple narration. And I stand 100% behind the fact that KR fired only when he felt under attack. If he hadn't had the gun, maybe they wouldn't have attacked (doubtful in Rosenbaum's case). But that's moot now.

You have no proof anyone gave him any ideology. Certainly there was no evidence of that on his phone and he has never been tied to anything by the police or FBI, and they tried. You think the prosecution wouldn't have presented that as evidence if they had it? Even Biden, according to you, is backtracking from saying he's a white supremacist.

He'd every right to go to Kenosha. His father lives there and he worked there as a lifeguard. He should not have gone out that night as indeed none of the other protesters should. And if none of the protesters of Blakes death hadn't gone out and rioted and caused property damage, it might well have been that KR wouldn't have gone either.

If, if, if.

There is tons of information out there. And false information - like he took his gun across state lines!

@CheeseMmmm

'It doesn't take that much effort to read the press in the USA and see from their reporting that the prosecution case was weak to start off with.'

Why would the average Brit do that? It's a country 1000s miles away. Around the world loads is going on. And here there's all sorts of things as well.

Why on earth would any ordinary person here be following this closely? Just why?

Here we have gas, inflation, the whole thing with govt retrospectivrly changing rules, covid what's happening, NI brexit etc.. Europe there's plenty too.. One that springs to mind is Belarus.

Globally there's awful things happening all over the place.

Why on earth would the average Brit be closely following this? They wouldn't be and they aren't.

Why are you telling me to get more info? Why would I?

Are you following in detail all the stuff going on around the world?

I'm bogstandard and my opinion is this is a totally predictable verdict that will result in trouble. His actions were totally out of order and two are dead. Self defence my arse he had no reason to be there in first place charging about with a big gun.

That's why o find this thread strange. The level of info posters have and the certainty right decision. It's just not representative of UK public who in the main won't have much of an opinion at all, let alone reams of info and a really strong opinion.

At least that's how it feels to me.

I don't know what the average Brit would do, but I know what I do. And I read a lot about international affairs. If you don't want to that's up to you. But I'd think if you did decide to comment on something, you'd want to be fully informed of the facts and it's clear from what you said that you weren't. And you're now telling me you don't want to be. But if you're not informed, you can't really argue that KR did anything right or wrong because you are ignorant of the facts.

Yes, I follow what's happening across Europe, with
Russia, Belarus and Poland. And across the world. I'm interested and it doesn't take that much time. Brexit, NI, covid, inflation energy prices, etc have been going on for ages. It doesn't take long to update yourself on that. I watch the 6 o'clock news, the 10 o'clock news and I read a selection of newspapers to get different political slants. I read the US press too.

Maybe the reason why lots of posters believe it's the right decision is because they read all the trial evidence, the stuff you can't be bothered to read. Do you think that it's possible that that leaves them a little better informed than you?

I agree most people on the UK won't have much knowledge or interest in this case. But the people who write on here are interested. There threads on here about knitting which really doesn't interest me. I don't go on them and say how strange it is that you're all writing about knitting. That would be weird of me, and a little rude.

@madisonbridges

You are absolutely putting words into Biden's mouth there, and interpreting according to your own agenda.

I sincerely hope he has some sway here. He clearly appealed for healing, but maybe you are not interested in that. His words make a pleasant contrast with the word and acts of his predecessor.

Your 'narration' was a heap of hooey. Rittenhouse had no business whatsoever joining the fray in Kenosha. Self defense means staying clear of trouble, not actively looking for it, crossing a state line in search of it, and participating in it. What did he expect he would end up doing with his gun that night?

As I have said, we will soon see what Kyle Rittenhouse lets the right do with his name and his story, whether he hops aboard the fascist, racist rally gravy train, or whether he decides to campaign for gun control out of remorse for the taking of two human lives.

How do we know you are not giving skewed info given you know that as a Londoner obviously I haven't been glued to the fine detail of something in a different country which is 1000s of miles away and totally massively different?

Why pick this instead of looking into... Any of the other things going on in other countries?

I mean bottom line is why am I supposed to be super interested in this when there's ni, gas, big political hooha etc here? And then Afghanistan Syria Burma etc and so on.

Do you follow the news around the world like this? No. As a Brit why is this of such interest to you?

On the news here there was stuff about various republican politicians saying inflammatory things. Celebrating. That is totally inappropriate and obviously will fuck a lot of people off.

Shitshow.

Why is this of such interest to you? I don't get it. What are your thoughts on Belarus, COVID rules changing round Europe and protests, Northern Ireland brexit situation and the current huge scandal around jobs etc in parliament?

Speaking personally I never watch the 6 o’clock or 10 o’clock news. I don’t think the content is unbiased at all. I prefer other media channels.

Al Jazeera v good also c4 I like. Newsnight also.

And actually sky news 24 pretty good on global and there's a French station English station I like as well.

BBC are shite agree although do look at site still every day.

@CheeseMmmm

How do we know you are not giving skewed info given you know that as a Londoner obviously I haven't been glued to the fine detail of something in a different country which is 1000s of miles away and totally massively different?

Why pick this instead of looking into... Any of the other things going on in other countries?

I mean bottom line is why am I supposed to be super interested in this when there's ni, gas, big political hooha etc here? And then Afghanistan Syria Burma etc and so on.

Do you follow the news around the world like this? No. As a Brit why is this of such interest to you?

On the news here there was stuff about various republican politicians saying inflammatory things. Celebrating. That is totally inappropriate and obviously will fuck a lot of people off.

Shitshow.

Why is this of such interest to you? I don't get it. What are your thoughts on Belarus, COVID rules changing round Europe and protests, Northern Ireland brexit situation and the current huge scandal around jobs etc in parliament?

Why did I pick this to talk about? Because that was what the thread was about and it interested me. Initially I thought he'd been wandering the,streets taking pot,shots at people and had killed 2 black men. I thought it was a given he'd be convicted, especially after Derek Chauvin. But then the evidence started yo unfurl and even US legal commentators were saying, where's the case? I do read about other countries but there were no threads about them.

You know the way to find out if I'm skewing the narrative, is reading for yourself. You're dead right not to trust a random off the Internet. But it's interesting that if I said it was a terrible verdict, you'd be happy to believe me. But I don't think I'm saying anything different from the vast majority of people on this thread.

You don't have to be super interested in this case. You don't have to be minorly interested in this case. But you posted about it so I'd think you'd want to know that what you posted was accurate, wouldn't you?

Republicans have celebrated which will cause unrest. Rittenhouse's lawyers have warned them to stop and not use his case for their political ends. Biden, Harris, and Democrats have appealed for calm but have said they're angry with the outcome, therefore saying the jury was wrong. That is also going to cause unrest. Politicians from both sides are only interested in votes in the elections next year.

Yes, I can give you my views on all of those things and others besides. (I've been somewhat involved in the Austria rules thread. It's been interesting to hear firsthand what's happening and why in different European countries, rather than reading about it in the press.) But I don't want to hijack this thread. Start some threads of your own and I'll hop on and give you my opinion.

@Malibuismysecrethome

Speaking personally I never watch the 6 o’clock or 10 o’clock news. I don’t think the content is unbiased at all. I prefer other media channels.

10 o'clock news certainly wasn't unbiased about Rittenhouse, you're right. They were shocked he'd been acquitted. I agree that you have to listen to different news editors and different written press to get a rounded view.

This thread has turned very strange.

I got interested in the case once the trial started as I realised that there was such a marked difference between the impression I'd gleaned when the shootings occurred, and the evidence that was being presented at trial.

Why on earth would any ordinary person here be following this closely? Just why?

Because what happens in the US tends to come over here as well.

And also because most people are capable in bring interested in more than one thing?

being even

@CheeseMmmm

I am sure there will be unrest hope I'm wrong.

Loads of people are understandably just past breaking point around all this.

The things I've read some USA republican politicians say are really goady as well.

It is understandable lots of people in the UK won't have followed this closely, although it has been all over social media and as its unusual for a president to reference an impending Court case it's not surprising people have read about it; but trapsing into a thread and making comments like the above, not really overly surprising some people question it is it?

Why on earth would any ordinary person here be following this closely? Just why?
For the same reason i follow lots of foreign political, news, etc, it was interesting.

America sneezes and everyone else gets a cold. Riots/unrest in the USA causes a ripple effect elsewhere, it doesn't matter if the culture/legal system/way of life is different that is what happens.
BTW Biden can say all he likes that he is disappointed with the verdict, but he will NEVER do anything about the gun culture of the USA.

Why on earth would any ordinary person here be following this closely? Just why?

I’ve been following US politics since Trump decided to run. Hateful man but somewhere in my mind I had a sense of dread that he was going to get in. It reminded me of a book I had read years ago, which was pretty scary and from the way the author posts on Twitter I am sure he sees it too. Stephen King if anyone is interested.

I think the implication is that you must be a certain kind of right wing person to be interested in this case isn’t it? And someone up thread has alluded to trump defending which also feeds into that.

This thread is just the same as what’s going on in general, if you question the narrative then you are a hate filled evil right winger. It worries me that people can’t discuss these matters without such heat and even sitting bang in the middle and trying to see all sides is viewed with suspicion leading to accusations of racism and assumption that they’re actually RW. The lies that have been repeatedly told in the media about this young man and his case are worthy of a second (third and fourth) look. But because he’s white, to do so is judged and explicitly described as racist. If people can’t see how frightening that is then I don’t know what to say to them.

I do hate the division & how you can't be anything but left or right. I dislike Trump & hate racism but I can see how KR was acquitted.

but he will NEVER do anything about the gun culture of the USA.

Agree & this is the problem.

As I have said, we will soon see what Kyle Rittenhouse lets the right do with his name and his story, whether he hops aboard the fascist, racist rally gravy train, or whether he decides to campaign for gun control out of remorse for the taking of two human lives.

Are they his only options? Perhaps he just wants some time out of the spotlight.