Kyle Rittenhouse not guilty?

[weegiemum]

How? He shot 2 people dead in front of witnesses, but apparently it was "self defence"?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/19/kyle-rittenhouse-verdict-kenosha-shooting?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Because it has always been the privilege of white men to go around killing people in America, and this verdict affirms that privilege, regardless of who he shot.

He was supported through this entire case by the Proud Boys. This should tell you what he stands for.

Do you think that Rittenhouse should have been convicted in order to try and prevent that, because he's white?

There were six charges on which he was tried. The possibility of a guilty verdict on any of the charges would have sent a message to other hot blooded fools not to saddle up and enter the fray

He should absolutely have been found guilty of the charge of 'first-degree recklessly endangering safety, use of a dangerous weapon'.

🙄 Yourself.

You should read my first post. Where did I criticise people of their opinions about what he did? I pointed out what one person wrote about him being 'still a child and his brain not being fully formed' and all that. In other words, what? He didn't know what he's doing when he brought a gun? He wasn't in his right mind? He's a little boy? Yes it is a rosy image, in my opinion. Do you mind?

It simply reminded me of how a black boy isn't usually seen as just a child, brain isn't fully formed, etc when he does something wrong. Not at 12 years old with a BB gun and certainly not at 17 carrying a gun and killing people with it. They've been called all sorts of thugs, etc for less.

I haven't looked at it in full doesn't mean I know nothing about it. I have the facts just like anyone else here who does but I didn't post to comment on anything else or I would've quoted other posts and commented on it.

I don't expect you to get what I'm saying though while you're focused on other things. Birds of a feather.

@mathanxiety

Because it has always been the privilege of white men to go around killing people in America, and this verdict affirms that privilege, regardless of who he shot.

He was supported through this entire case by the Proud Boys. This should tell you what he stands for.

He can't dictate who supports him. And honestly if the President and the Vice President of the USA have decided he's guilty before even hearing the evidence, I guess he was glad for any support.

I've read the evidence and I can't see how you can say it's anything other than self-defence. When the prosecution's own witnesses testify in favour of the accused, you've got to wonder how the case even found its way into court. I wonder what the members of the Grand Jury are thinking about the evidence Binger laid before them now.

• Five felonies, not six; there was also one misdemeanour weapons charge which was dismissed by the judge on Monday.

Brain fully mature*

He can't dictate who supports him. And honestly if the President and the Vice President of the USA have decided he's guilty before even hearing the evidence, I guess he was glad for any support.

Poor diddums, glad of any support. The president and VP ganged up on him.

He could have openly repudiated the support of organisations whose politics and attitudes he disagreed with. His silence speaks volumes.

I've read the evidence and I can't see how you can say it's anything other than self-defence.

Here's a self defense tip:

Don't bring a gun from one state to another to join a chaotic protest.

Stay the fuck home. Watch it all on TV.

What did that right wing fool think he would end up doing with that gun?

@ListIsGettingLonger. You called him a thug and a hooligan and you don't even know the full case. If you'd read all the evidence and then still reasoned that he was a thug and a hooligan, then fair enough, you'd be able to rationalise and make a case. But you're labelling someone when you've stated you don't know the facts.

@mathanxiety

I've read the evidence and I can't see how you can say it's anything other than self-defence.

Here's a self defense tip:

Don't bring a gun from one state to another to join a chaotic protest.

Stay the fuck home. Watch it all on TV.

What did that right wing fool think he would end up doing with that gun?

No, tip number one, when you state facts, make sure they're true!

He didn't bring a gun from another state. It was bought in Wisconsin and was always kept in Kenosha.

I mean if you're going to make judgements on people, the least you can do is read the facts.

But you're labelling someone when you've stated you don't know the facts.

And I wrote this.
"I have the facts just like anyone else here who does..."

Also said "I haven't looked at it in full doesn't mean I know nothing about it" (or him, for that matter).

You tried to goad me into answering guilty or innocent and I didn't rise to it because I didn't post to decide his case.

But carry on rewriting posts. Birds of a feather.

@mathanxiety

He can't dictate who supports him. And honestly if the President and the Vice President of the USA have decided he's guilty before even hearing the evidence, I guess he was glad for any support.

Poor diddums, glad of any support. The president and VP ganged up on him.

He could have openly repudiated the support of organisations whose politics and attitudes he disagreed with. His silence speaks volumes.

The President and the VP hold a bit of sway in the USA don't you think? If Trump had prejudged a trial in the same way - and he probably did - you'd be all over it, saying how disgusting it was, and that the executive should behave better than that. But because its Biden and Harris you give them a pass. But they seem to know as much about the case as you and all three of you seem happy to just state any old incorrect facts.

@ListIsGettingLonger. I asked if you thought he was guilty and you replied...
I have no idea. Haven’t looked at the case in full.

Which means you don't know if he's guilty or innocent because you don't know all the facts. So if you don't know all the facts, and you're still open to finding him innocent, then you're just calling him names without any foundation. But maybe that's just how you always roll.

@ListIsGettingLonger From your point of view, do you think he should have been found guilty?

@madisonbridges I have no idea. Haven’t looked at the case in full. Only pointed out something from this thread. As I said, I'm not commenting on the case itself.

It's my way of not rising to your goady question and sticking to what I posted for, as I keep pointing out. It's just how I always roll.

You're, of course, free to interpret it how you like, as you clearly want to.

[quote ListIsGettingLonger]**@ListIsGettingLonger From your point of view, do you think he should have been found guilty?

@madisonbridges I have no idea. Haven’t looked at the case in full. Only pointed out something from this thread. As I said, I'm not commenting on the case itself.

It's my way of not rising to your goady question and sticking to what I posted for, as I keep pointing out. It's just how I always roll.

You're, of course, free to interpret it how you like, as you clearly want to.[/quote]
Oh, I get it now. You just lie. That's how you roll.

[quote hamsterchump]@TompPinch Tony Martin shot the burglars in the back as they ran away, you aren't allowed to do that over here or in the US.[/quote]
The point I was making in my comparison to the Tony Martin case was that 'self defence' in the US is different to the UK (and I suspect just about anywhere else) both in the legal test and in the context within which it is applied, and people need to be aware of this: self defence means different things in different places.

It's not a precise comparison. In England, self defence allows a proportionate response to the circumstances as the defendant perceives them. Martin shot people in his house. That they appeared to be heading away him him is only one factor.

Whether Rittenhouse would have got convicted of murder in England is hard to know but he'd certainly have at least got manslaughter, simply by turning up to a fight with a lethal weapon.

😅

That's all you have left? Where's the lie?

It's not my fault that you couldn't read my posts fully or comprehend what I actually wrote, instead of writing what you think I'm trying to say. Stop putting words in my mouth so your words don't become a lie. But that's how you roll, I suppose.

You're harping on about facts but keep making my posts up as you go along, copying and pasting partial posts to make your point.

Can't trust you with facts of a case if you can't even stick to what's actually posted here.

@ListIsGettingLonger Yes, I've interpreted what you've said. You're either ignorant of the facts or you're not ignorant of the facts but are just saying you are. Either way, you're not adding anything to furthering the understanding of the case so I don't see any worthwhile reason to engage with you.

What a strange thread!

I watched the link early in thread and remember seeing some on telly at time.

Running down the road with the gun? Left scene of man he shot first. Why not stay wait for ambulance? Rather than sprinting off. That's just ???

Then trying to stop him as he shot someone. One tried to stop him with a skateboard as weapon? Didn't see those trying to stop him waving guns shooting.

He killed 2 and shot others.

Ludicrous decision. And agree if black would have been very very very different.

@CheeseMmmm

What a strange thread!

I watched the link early in thread and remember seeing some on telly at time.

Running down the road with the gun? Left scene of man he shot first. Why not stay wait for ambulance? Rather than sprinting off. That's just ???

Then trying to stop him as he shot someone. One tried to stop him with a skateboard as weapon? Didn't see those trying to stop him waving guns shooting.

He killed 2 and shot others.

Ludicrous decision. And agree if black would have been very very very different.

I'm not sure you've got all the facts there. Each time it was people attacking him that led to the killings.

He took a gun with him. Someone threatened to kill him. He ran from that man who chased him. Another guy shot at him and the first guy lunged at him. Kyle Ritterhouse said he was scared if he'd got his gun he'd have killed him like he'd threatened to do. So he shot him in self-defence.
He then waited whilst someone started cpr and then he left and approached some police vehicles (poss yo give himself up?)
Then a crowd of people started to say he'd shot someone and to 'get him' and 'beat him up'. He ran from them and fell over. The crowd then started to kick at him and one guy started hitting him with his skateboard. They then started to struggle with him to get the gun away from Rittenhouse and he shot and killed another person.
Then Rittenhouse was approached by another guy who had a glock handgun. He aimed the gun at Rittenhouse so Rittenhouse shot and injured him.
After that shooting, Rittenhouse walked towards the police again to give himself up.

Not what I saw.

Just interested and yes it's curiosity. Due to the detail in the posts and the definite views and etc. Seems there may be a fair few USA posters on this thread?

Just I can't imagine many here would have followed it closely at all.

Or the thread has attracted members of that small group here who would have been really interested.

The majority right result feels unusual as well again because well. Here the main news focus after verdict is got off. USA politicians esp republican have said things that will stir things up. Going to be riots over there.

Iyswim.

Just reading back a bit.

A pp said something like USA racist double standards.

Reply was no they aren't.

The whole WORLD knows it's true. From following the news.. Whether they approve personally or not is another matter.

What a strange thread.

Going to be riots over there.
Thankfully as a Brit who lives over here it looks like there aren't.
Partly I suspect because everyone involved was white and I'm not sure how much enthusiasm BLM protesters can muster for a white child sex offender.
Party because the result isn't that surprising given the details of the case, although I was disappointed that no charge of any sort could be made to stick.
Also the weather is a little cold for hanging around outside in the Midwest at the moment.

I think the case of the man killed while jogging in his neighborhood might be more likely to cause riots because he was a black man in a much more egregious case. (Also the weather is better in that part of the country.)

That case is appalling. There was a clip on the news with the police reassuring the men who shot I think? And initially there were no charges or something... Something shit anyway.

The fact that deaths of esp black men in USA seem to have no action unless there's footage and/ or its brought to public attention is just shit.

I remember Rodney king and the footage which was on the news here. At the to time way fewer cameras and much lower chance of footage coming out from any CCTV. It was horrifying. I was secondary school and still remember it.

Having said that the police here well the met which has been my force almost whole life. Have had things like that. Difference is our police aren't routinely armed with guns. They are still fairly good at having a disproportionate death rate for black men they come into contact with.

Sadly with so many things in the news 'we' look at terrible things elsewhere and say awful. Not just police but loads of things. And either don't know or don't think to remember that things aren't perfect here either. I mean yes we're very lucky and this country is v safe. Don't get me wrong. But there can be a blind spot when looking at some news from abroad.