DC feels aggrieved because school friends have ‘more’

[Foolsrule]

A bit of a strange one. We live in a nice house in a nice area. DC attend a school with a mixed catchment and have friends from a range of backgrounds. Eldest DC is under the impression that we are poor as we don’t have a huge wide screen TV, she doesn’t have her own phone and I send her to school swimming with a plain John Lewis towel as opposed to a branded/themed Disney one. She seems envious of her friends who seem to have a lot of ‘stuff’ on a daily basis, but don’t have the holidays, the range of out of school activities etc. and opportunities she has. I have explained that different families do things differently, we place value on different things but neither way is right or wrong, and she still seems to feel hard done by. Some of it might be about fitting in? Any ideas, anyone?

mam0918
I'm not that old, it was late 1970s

Why do people keep talking about her wanting to fit in, that the other kids will exclude her? The OP hasn't said that, she says her DD would like these things. Maybe she does feel different, maybe someone has been nasty but we don't know that as the OP hasn't said that.

I can't see the point of discussing something if people just make things up.

The OP hasn't said that

The OP is long gone

She didn't say though it did she. People are making up a scenario where the child is only wanting these things to a. fit in or b. because other children are excluding her. We have no idea if either of those things are true.

I’m talking to another poster not the OP.

@mam0918 If a child is part of a group she doesn’t need a towel to be ‘more part of the group’.

Why would anyone need a towel to be accepted?

Its not necessarily about being accepted. Its sometimes just about being the same and having what other's have because you like it. My DD was always very popular in her group, never left out of anything, but once told me it made her sad that all the other girls had long hair, and she couldn't swish hers about like they did.

@Embroidery

She doesn't feel luckier than the other children if they can afford: Smiggle pencil cases £30 North Face coats£100 Expensive school bag (£60 to £150) On trend uniform - Next / New look etc. Prices vary.

If you're so MC, you can find the money for it. You just chose not to, as you think its beneath you. Its not beneath your child, and their social class is suffering as a result of your views.

No amount of MC snobbishness is going to make her feel better. Children in sensible shoes and old fashioned sensible clothes and bag don't become popular and really feel the distinction in their social class (= underclass). They eventually become nerds then generally blossom at uni but its very hard for them 10 - 16yo.
Kids who are bought all of above, and all the rest as they age, go through high school popular and into 6th form popular and thrive at uni.

This is why pp say 10yo+ are expensive. Did that pass you by?

This is tragic.

"Children in sensible shoes and old fashioned sensible clothes and bag don't become popular and really feel the distinction in their social class (= underclass)."

Underclass?! Seriously?! This is just not true. Popularity is about confidence and charisma and kindness. I know the later sounds to good to be true but the most popular girl in DDs class was popular because she was kind. And a people pleaser. (Not ideal but that's besides the point) You can't buy those things. And it's tragic when adults shove money at kids without looking at the real issue underneath.

They eventually become nerds then generally blossom at uni but its very hard for them 10 - 16yo.
Kids who are bought all of above, and all the rest as they age, go through high school popular and into 6th form popular and thrive at uni.

What a massive generalisation. And not a nice one either. If that's really the case we parents need to help kids rise above it and find other ways to make real friends.

Btw, I was the kid with with crap lunch, no branded stuff, and parents who weren't into consumerism. Yes I was picked on a bit but I knew it was all bollocks, and brushed it off. I'm not saying I loved having the geeky teddy when everyone else had Care Bears but I got the point, even a younger than 11. And thank fuck for that, I've never felt peer pressured into anything since either. Who wants to live like that?!

Can’t the kids be more inclusive and talk about their favourite Disney character or something? Why is the towel important?

I’m pretty sure £100 coats and £60-150 bags would exclude quite a few kids. So the kids who can’t have these I guess wouldn’t be ‘accepted’? I’d contribute what I would if I were buying the standard plain items - but the kids would have to top it up with birthday and pocket money.

I was a nerd at school - and teased, as was DH. I was teased a bit less because I was on school sports team. But I’m glad I didn’t follow the crowd and not study or play around in class to be ‘cool’ - I feel it gave me more options in life than I would have had.

Many of us have talked about our experiences of having overly principled and/or tight parents. Even if the other kids aren't actually bullying you, it doesn't feel nice to stand out somewhere like school, where you can't move on and find another group easily.

The worst situation is the affected person builds a protective wall of their own snobbery around themselves, loudly proclaiming that their unfashionable bag or horrible coat is far superior to other bags or coats, and they're so much of a better person because climate change, and because being above peer pressure, and because said crap bag was ACTUALLY quite expensive and all the people that work with my dad have one SO THERE.

I have a friend who is in her 40s and still like this. She is single and wonders why others find her such hard work.

There is much truth in Embroidery's post. And a huge difference between being liked and being popular. Children are liked for being nice, kind etc but they are popular for being cool. Popular kids are aspirstional to others. They are physically attractive or at least have the physical attributions that are desirable, haircut, clothes, possessions. They are confident and fun and create interest around themselves. They do not have sensible clothes and trappings, they have fashionable desirable ones. Rarely, a kid is so well liked, they can go against the grain but generally they're bringing something else to the table that other kids find so cool they overlook it. I'm not saying it's right, or that parents need to collude with it, but it's ever been the way, and I think people saying otherwise have forgotten their school days.

I think that within budget and reason the parents should let the children decide whether they want to follow the crowd or not. If you have a budget for £50 for a school bag as long as it will do the job the child can choose brand/ style (and the same with swimming towel).

What I wanted as a child was to have some choice over these things- I didn't want to be one of the cool kids, I liked my friends but I still wanted to express myself through my coat, bag, shoes etc.

If Mumsnet was a thing 25 years ago my mum would have proudly posted how her daughter didn't follow the crowd and wasn't a sheep and all that bollocks. I didn't have the choice as she made all my fashion choices until I got a part time job.

I think the compromise is to allow children an element of choice - in their possessions, interests, activities and lifestyle. Of course much of this will be dictated by parents, but feeling involved in that is important. So allowing a child to choose their clothes, school bag, pencil case and towel - within reason. Asking them which activities they want to do. This allows them to demonstrate their own style - some of that will be shaped by peer pressure, and no doubt some informed by parental values. But to have those decisions imposed on you, with no choice, is hard as both an adult and a child.

Agree with 5128 and Embroidery however much you may wish it wasn’t so and you’re child is the hero of the movie wearing their marks and Spencer coat that analysis broadly right.

It was terribly important to my teens to have North Face coats. They were more expensive but it seemed churlish to refuse to pay abit more for a decent quality item that meant so much to them.

My dds north face has lasted 4 years now and has been worth every penny - warm and squashable into a backpack!

Save her pocket money and buy one

ok, let's take it away from a fucking towel because some people can't grasp that it's fuck all to do with 'exclusion' and 'fitting in'.

What do YOUR kids ask for?

Let's say it's Xmas and your kid has written a list asking for Lego... Why?

Obviously, it MUST be to 'fit in' right? if he doesn't have it will he be bullied and excluded right?

Or does he just fucking like lego?

This has NOTHING to do with other kids, everyone is focusing on magical made up bullies that never existed. OPs daughter wants a towel with her favorite cartoon on because of nothing more than she is a child and want a fucking towel with a cartoon on.

The only reason the other kids are mentioned is that they have what she wants... literally no other reason.

There no exclusion, bullying, fitting in with sheep or jack shit else her friends have something she likes and she asked for it but was denied for no good reason and is sad at how her MOTHER is bullying (lording financial power) and excluding her (deliberately not letting her confirm to her choose group) not the children.

I also think it's important to say that if people have children who don't want a Disney towel (or north face jacket or kickers shoes) this doesn't make those children any better than the Disney and north face loving children. They are in no way superior- they just like different things.

I got this bullshit from my mum who disliked anything 'girly' and anything popular would make me look common. I wasn't allowed to make my own choices because of this.

If my kid wanted Lego but we already have loads of Lego. Then they can save money to get it. Maybe sell some of their Lego sets and get the new one? If there wasn’t already a towel and the kids wanted a towel, then if it’s not that unreasonable to get a towel with a pattern if it’s not too expensive (otherwise save up and pay the difference). But if there already was a towel, why spend more on something superfluous (that’s what the kids’ personal spending money is for)?

Kids want a lot of things, having to make choices is realistic - save up for the coat or the bag- can’t do both unless you want to give something else up. Sometimes they can’t have everything they want even if their friends do.

People are ok to like different things - but it’s better to be financially responsible than irresponsible. And people who need a particular thing to feel good are probably at a disadvantage compared to those who can do with less - as life is uncertain and we might find ourselves in situations where we have less choice.

You can flip this on its head too.

A few of my friends were the ones who "had it all" in terms of the cool, trendy stuff as kids. They're adults now and pick and choose what they like.

It's a convenient lie some parents tell themselves that it's character building for kids to have adult choices imposed on them. My friends have lots of character and individuality, and they weren't held back from developing them by their pencil cases.

(excluding, of course, any issues of affordability)

@thecatsthecats

You can flip this on its head too.

A few of my friends were the ones who "had it all" in terms of the cool, trendy stuff as kids. They're adults now and pick and choose what they like.

It's a convenient lie some parents tell themselves that it's character building for kids to have adult choices imposed on them. My friends have lots of character and individuality, and they weren't held back from developing them by their pencil cases.

(excluding, of course, any issues of affordability)

This is my experience too. The people I knew who were popular at school and one of my own DC, who also was, have become extremely confident adults who are quite happy to go their own way without caring what others think. If you learn from your peers from an early age that you are 'cool' and your company is desirable, it does a lot for your self esteem.

Disney towels are pretty. Plain ones are boring, even if they are expensive. An 11yo wants to have cute things. Its not rocket science.

@Namenic

If my kid wanted Lego but we already have loads of Lego. Then they can save money to get it. Maybe sell some of their Lego sets and get the new one? If there wasn’t already a towel and the kids wanted a towel, then if it’s not that unreasonable to get a towel with a pattern if it’s not too expensive (otherwise save up and pay the difference). But if there already was a towel, why spend more on something superfluous (that’s what the kids’ personal spending money is for)?

Kids want a lot of things, having to make choices is realistic - save up for the coat or the bag- can’t do both unless you want to give something else up. Sometimes they can’t have everything they want even if their friends do.

People are ok to like different things - but it’s better to be financially responsible than irresponsible. And people who need a particular thing to feel good are probably at a disadvantage compared to those who can do with less - as life is uncertain and we might find ourselves in situations where we have less choice.

But that's not what's happening... the equivalent would be if YOU had lots of Lego and your DS wanted some.

Is OPs child allowed to sell her mother's John Lewis towels?

I can imagine OP would be mega pissed if her daughter stole and sold her things to fund the Disney towel.

If the child wanted extra pens when there were already pens present they could use, then they can use their money to buy it. If the child has a towel she can use but she wants an extra one, use her pocket money! The JL towel was purchased previously. And additional one is superfluous currently - so kid pays for extras/enhancement

If there are space limitations on towels then yes - it would be 1 in 1 out. But kid can clear space if they wish from their personal things