DC feels aggrieved because school friends have ‘more’

[Foolsrule]

A bit of a strange one. We live in a nice house in a nice area. DC attend a school with a mixed catchment and have friends from a range of backgrounds. Eldest DC is under the impression that we are poor as we don’t have a huge wide screen TV, she doesn’t have her own phone and I send her to school swimming with a plain John Lewis towel as opposed to a branded/themed Disney one. She seems envious of her friends who seem to have a lot of ‘stuff’ on a daily basis, but don’t have the holidays, the range of out of school activities etc. and opportunities she has. I have explained that different families do things differently, we place value on different things but neither way is right or wrong, and she still seems to feel hard done by. Some of it might be about fitting in? Any ideas, anyone?

My friend had a pair of Stan smiths on the other day. I thought they were really nice so I've asked for a pair for Xmas. I'm 55. Surely we often see things we like when other people have them? I don't want to actually BE my friend, just liked the trainers.

Sorry, if that came across as judgement you and that's just the point you got from my whole post.
I feel kids aren't really taught the value or morals. It's all about the latest things and stuff. This is going on when my kids come home from school and what I see around us. An very clearly it's obvious (from this post) that it's not just me who experiences the same.

My thoughts are, you don't need to "fit in".

Well, kids sort of do. Otherwise life can be hell for them. Life for most kids revolves around school and school is all about fitting in and not standing out. Look at school uniform, for instance.

Adults don't need to 'fit in' because, if they don't like something, they can walk out and go and 'find their tribe' (whether that's moving, changing jobs, taking up a different hobby etc.).

Kids don't have that power over their lives. So 'fitting in' is often a sensible survival tactic to make the best of things.

@Gliderx Sorry I don't agree. If a child's self worth is built around security and not "survival" then they'll comfortable be themselves. "Survival" is the reason there is serious rise in anxiety- why does a child need to just get through it or accept it as "normal"! Yet it's perfectly acceptable for an adult to say no or decide if they don't like something and then have the option to change. So condition the child and provide security for the adult.

A child should learn to accept themselves rather accept how others see them. So, encouraging uniqueness and acceptance creates a healthier child.

It isn't all about fitting in, the poor kid sees things that she would like, her parents can afford them, they buy similar things but not the one she wants e.g. white John Lewis towel versus a Disney towel. It seems mean and petty. Children can't control everything in their lives, they can't have everything they want but that doesn't mean it is OK to deliberately say they can't have something because it doesn't fit with the mother's taste.

What the child is learning from this is that you don't have to care about other peoples feelings and her parents might regret that lesson one day.

Just want to add I have 17 year old GS living with me, the fact that his parents never listened to him is one of the big reasons for the final blow up.

That's a good point on why kids want to fit in.
We've all had our moments when we've felt like the odd one out, turned up over dressed or underdressed for an occasion or dodged that feeling by asking a pal 'what are you wearing' life is often about fitting in.

"Survival" is the reason there is serious rise in anxiety- why does a child need to just get through it or accept it as "normal"! Yet it's perfectly acceptable for an adult to say no or decide if they don't like something and then have the option to change.

But the reality is that children don't get to opt out. Our society isn't set up that way. Children are expected to shut up and do as they're told. That's why school isn't optional for bullied kids - they're expected just to endure the company of peers who may be making their lives miserable.

It's really lacking in empathy for an adult who has control over their job, their friends, their hobbies (and their linen!) to tell a child who has really very little control over their life that they should just 'be themselves' and 'find their tribe' and they don't need Disney towels even if that's what all the other kids have.

It wouldn't be a moral failure to buy your kid a Disney towel if they want one. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to be an outlier

I do wonder if mumsnet has more than its fair share of social outliers who harshly judge those who'd quite like to fit in, thanks.

We all need to realise that stuff is just stuff

we do, but it's not fair to make children stand out among their peers either.

DH and I have had a few chats about the fact we both had parents who wouldn't let us wear what was in fashion and we got the "why do you want to be the same as everyone else". Because we just want to fit in and not be a target for bullying.

Admittedly if I thought my dd was being bullied for having a white swimming towel instead of a Disney towel I'd be at the school asking what the wotsit was going on. But I can't imagine children are quite that shallow.

It’s an elemental human need to “fit in” if our ancestors were ousted from the tribe it means certain death. It’s hard wired. Good luck counteracting that!

Another one here who stood out uncomfortably at school due to having a mother who was both a raging snob and "didn't belieeeeeeeve" in children having fashionable things. She was obsessed with John Lewis and "good quality" things, yet we didn't have much money so they had to be bought in advance, a couple of sizes too big, and worn into the ground.
It's a towel, not a £120 bag or inappropriate shoes. A useful household thing that will be handy for the beach, for a pet to sit on or for protecting the floor from messy activities when your DD doesn't use it for swimming any more.

@Forsure69

I would be in round the same thinking as you!

My thoughts are, you don't need to "fit in". Why can't we teach our kids to appreciate what they have or give them value to their surroundings and what they DO HAVE, rather than material things. We aren't well off but we arent poor. If my kids come home complaining about what someone else has that they don't, they'll be quickly reminded that you are not them and they are not you.
I don't fill emotional/material wants with things that others have. I think too many parents are teaching kids to fit in rather than developing encouraging their own sense of what value really is. My friends asked his mum for an iPhone, and his parents got it for him, I want an iPhone too- not gona happen buddy!

Yes, they're just kids but this is a prime time to teach, do not give in to peer/societies pressure.

Even when it's actually teaching 'your feelings and preferences based upon a wish to feel part of your peer group have no value to me' ?

I think it depends what group you want to fit into. Been following this thread for a day or so and thinking hmm, hope we're not "those parents" because I won't buy the Junior Engineer an iPhone or what it is, what if he wants to fit in?
And off he trots at the weekend to a gaming convention and comes home with £80's worth of steampunk top hat. It's gorgeous and he looks amazing in it, but I reckon he's going to look a bit conspicuous at the school prom.
On the other hand, he fits right in at D&D, so he's happy.

@Ddot

Yes but my generation are being blamed for ruining the planet, when I was young we had nowt but having said that we all had nowt. School clothes, playing out stuff, and best. One of each exception two school shirts. One pair of school shoes and some plimsoles. We ate what was put in front of us then went out to play. NO car, no technology, till the microwave came along. We all need to realise that stuff is just stuff

“You see, back in those days, rich men would ride around in zeppelins, dropping coins on people. And one day, I seen J. D. Rockefeller flyin’ by– so I run out of the house with a big washtub, and—Anyway, about my washtub. I just used it that morning to wash my turkey which in those days was known as a ‘walking bird.’” - Abe Simpson

@Gliderx

"Survival" is the reason there is serious rise in anxiety- why does a child need to just get through it or accept it as "normal"! Yet it's perfectly acceptable for an adult to say no or decide if they don't like something and then have the option to change.

But the reality is that children don't get to opt out. Our society isn't set up that way. Children are expected to shut up and do as they're told. That's why school isn't optional for bullied kids - they're expected just to endure the company of peers who may be making their lives miserable.

It's really lacking in empathy for an adult who has control over their job, their friends, their hobbies (and their linen!) to tell a child who has really very little control over their life that they should just 'be themselves' and 'find their tribe' and they don't need Disney towels even if that's what all the other kids have.

well said.

The child is trying to find her group, place, taste... I highly doubt every kid has a Disney towel and she is conforming to be a 'brick in the wall' but rather the kids with similar taste to her who she wants to be accepted by have Disney towels.

Theres no set conforming in secondary - you have goths, preps, chavs, hipsters, emos etc... if she says 'all the other kid's parents let them listen to my chem' I guarantee she doesn't mean the whole school rather her choose peer group.

Disney is a very specific personality some people define themselves as hense why Disney is so rich... fully gown adults without kids go to disney world and shop at the disney store.

Poor kid has no say in developing who she wants to be but is being told to 'be herself'.

Who the hell wants to hang out with the kids who will only accept other kids with Disney towels tho? It's a good way of weeding out the twits.

Who the hell wants to hang out with the kids who will only accept other kids with Disney towels tho? It's a good way of weeding out the twits.

And no doubt when the same logic has been applied to all the other groups of kids (not just the 'kids with Disney towels'), all the 'twits' will have been weeded out and the child doing the 'weeding' will be left alone in splendid isolation. Because most kids are 'twits' in one way or another at that age.

All kids are twits to some extent but they're not all conformist exclusionary twits obsessed with cartoons.

@TatianaBis

Who the hell wants to hang out with the kids who will only accept other kids with Disney towels tho? It's a good way of weeding out the twits.

ah of course you don't naturally attract to peer groups who share your taste and values? You are completely blind to fashion and tastes when it comes to forming bonds instead you just wear a potato sack and talk about nothing when meeting new people because weeding out those you might remotely have anything in common with would obviously make you a TWAT.

Even fucking adults express themselves this way, it's entirely normal to show off your interests in some form of visual way and others with similar interests to attract to that because you can tell you have a commonality FFS.

• TWIT (but in this instance I like autocorrect lol)

So you don't differentiate between gravitating towards people who share your tastes, or in the case of Disney - bad taste, and actively excluding people who don't. You condone that?

If you will only socialise other people with what you consider to be the right kit, I suggest you need to get out more.

@TatianaBis

So you don't differentiate between gravitating towards people who share your tastes, or in the case of Disney - bad taste, and actively excluding people who don't. You condone that?

If you will only socialise other people with what you consider to be the right kit, I suggest you need to get out more.

No one said she was excluded, you just randomly making shit up that is no part of this.

OP clearly states she has friends and wants some of what her friends have - they are already her friends so she NOT excluded and that was never mentioned.

She wants the Disney towel because she wants it, that's the self-expression of her tastes and it's an expression her chosen peer group's parents allow them but her mother doesn't so she feels her self identification is being squashed.

Why are people focusing on fitting in and exclusion when it has got nothing to do with anything?

I was referring to your post, not the OP's.

You said: the kids with similar taste to her who she wants to be accepted by have Disney towels

I said: Who the hell wants to hang out with the kids who will only accept other kids with Disney towels

If they will accept her without a Disney towel she doesn't need to have one to be part of the group.

14:05TatianaBis

**Who the hell wants to hang out with the kids who will only accept other kids with Disney towels tho? It's a good way of weeding out the twits

Exactly!!

@TatianaBis

I was referring to your post, not the OP's.

You said: the kids with similar taste to her who she wants to be accepted by have Disney towels

I said: Who the hell wants to hang out with the kids who will only accept other kids with Disney towels

If they will accept her without a Disney towel she doesn't need to have one to be part of the group.

She doesn't NEED one to be in a group but she WANTS one to feel a more part of the group because she likes them and the others all have them... how is that hard to grasp.

No one said she was 'excluded' (meaning to 'deny someone access to a group or place') for not having the towel but she wants to be ACCEPTED (meaning 'to be recognised within a culture normal/standard practices')

Excluded is not related to being accepted, they're completely different things.