What do the tories have to do to lose an election ?

[Desmorelda]

There have been suggestions in the press that within the next year Johnson will call a general election what with the infighting going on in the LP and life for many returning to normal.
At the moment the Tories are still garnering a decent percentage of prospective votes in polls. On a recent thread about Angela Rayner's choice language most posters were incensed that the PM had been subjected to such insults and felt that this genuinely made the opposition unelectable, such was
her threat to the moral fabric of the UK. However bad things are, people seem to have short memories at election time. Default vote is for the tories, however fiscally inept they are, despite multiple incidents of cronyism and corruption, dishonesty, documented lying in parliament.
I appreciate other parties are equally as incompetent but in a more bumbling, less cynical way. The Tories on the other hand are tefal plated and are not subjected to the same rigorous moral standards as the lib dems or the LP, both by the press and voters. I find it mystifying as someone not born in this country that people are so complacent and forgiving. So I just wondered how bad do the Tories have to be to lose your vote. Or maybe explain what have they done so well in the last 11 years to deserve your vote ?

[quote Desmorelda]@KimmyKimdoo why an embarrassment ? Surely the party in government presiding over food and fuel shortages should be ashamed ? Maybe it's british thing, stiff upper lip. You can't admit you've repeatedly elected a party into power that constantly lets you down. So you content yourself that the alternative is worse. Like Brexit. The self denial that it isn't an absolute disaster is striking.[/quote]
What guarantee is there that things would have been different under Labour? You know the party that convinced levers it was pro-remain and remainers that it was pro-Brexit. Hardly a massive show of competence.

There’s an almost plaintive note in your posts, Desmoralda, asking why can’t we just see that the tories are so awful? The answer keeps coming repeatedly-we CAN see, we know, but there is no solution because the opposition, in all its forms, aren’t offering anything better. There’s no good answer until Labour look at reality and stand up to say we can do better than this; we can make this country into what it should be-a compassionate, healthy, decent place for everyone. They aren’t saying that and while they’re mired in identity /student politics, the tories will plunge eyes-deep in the trough for the few.

@Effic

Why (I think) people vote Tory & they are still ahead in the polls ….

Euro scepticism/ Brexit - it’s not a new thing. Tories were the only party to show some critical thinking around Europe and appeared to ‘listen’ to voters concerns and issues. Labour just called them all racist thickos. But the concerns of these voters (which they were told were unequivocally wrong) now appear correct. Working class people said that cheap foreign labour was driving down wages and working conditions …… they were absolutely told how wrong/thick/racist they were but now the situation around firstly hospitality workers and now lorry drivers seems to be confirming what they already thought. Wages are going up in both industries due to a shortage of staff and employers can no longer treat them like shit knowing there is an endless supply cos there isn’t. Care workers will be next I think. That’s a lot of people’s lived reality at the moment.

Current shortages ….. a few clicks in any news website tells you that it’s the same around the world. And it’s hardly Armageddon that you can’t get a McDonald’s milkshake! Voters are mainly still grateful to be getting back to some sort of normal. Very few people think that the world essentially shutting for two years wouldn’t have major repercussions so no one is blaming the Tories for anything that has its origins in COVID so it’s providing good ‘cover’ and quite frankly Labour look stupid doing so

The Tory party ask for your vote not your heart and they do not lecture, belittle and insult the very people they need to vote for them. The Tory party is not a cult. They list their policies and ask people to vote for them. Labour list their policies and then tell everyone that doesn’t whole wholeheartedly agree and endorse every word that they are thick, misogynistic, racist, and actually tells them they don’t want their vote. They want to tell you how to think and speak and police it venomously. Even if you think the trans issue is niche, the general outpouring of utter woke nonsense from Labour just puts people off. As PP have said, most people are small ‘c’ conservative so this just pushes them away. And blaming the media just annoys people as it’s basically continuing the rhetoric that people are all so thick that they can’t see the ‘truth’ as laid out by Labour which is kind of ironic. And it’s hard to blame the media when you have actual MPs tweeting their wokeness direct to the world.

Because it’s not a cult, the Tory party changes leaders like socks. There is a bit of political intrigue and then it’s fine. Boris is the first ‘popular’ leader they’ve had in a while so probably a few people did vote for him but mostly people voted for their perception of good policies not the leader who could change any day so boris isn’t the liability he should be. And everyone knows that the minute he becomes one, the Tories will dispatch him effortlessly.

Most people vote for themselves and their families. The Tory party ask voters to vote for what they think is best for themselves and their families and position themselves accordingly. Labour ask voters to vote for what’s best for society and claim they can deliver this utopia. Voters don’t believe them but even if they do, mostly people care more about themselves and their families 🤷‍♀️

I could go on but I won’t mainly because generally the Labour voters that ask this question just launch into a load of whataboutery but that is my opinion.

This x 10,000!

@SancerreSunsets

Things will have to get a lot worse for a lot of people for the Tories to lose the next election. I find it mind boggling we have so many cap-doffing people in this country who would actually choose the embarrassing joke that is Johnson, over Starmer - who comes across as decent, intelligent and hard-working. Johnson, who has delivered us the worst version of Brexit possible, who embarrasses us on the world stage, who can't get a grip on crises, who takes money from those least able to pay it whilst giving his loaded mates lucrative contracts for doing a rubbish job. Still - that's where we are, and as long as Love Island or something equally mindless is on TV, the masses are happy.

Perhaps because people won't vote for a party that patronises and insults them. Say what you like about the Tories, they do NOT insult the voters.

@MrsWooster not plaintive at all. I'm not a brit so I really couldn't care less but I live here and work within public services. You are then happy for the tories to plunge eyes deep into the trough for the few no ? Mealy mouth talk about turning the UK into a compassionate decent place is just talk, empty words, I think you call it a pipe dream. You hold other parties up to higher moral standards than the tories, so no opposition party can ever seriously have a go at government because they are not perfect. Things are falling apart around you but all I hear from this thread is but Labour are worse. I suppose it's fear of change who knows. But sad.

Not at all, women are just finally seeing that they need to put themselves first, rather than everyone else. It makes a nice change.

You hold other parties up to higher moral standards than the tories

Because that is an integral part of what the Labour Party is selling - higher moral standards.

Things are falling apart around you but all I hear from this thread is but Labour are worse.

And where will you hear this most loudly? At a Labour Party conference.

unherd.com/2021/09/corbyn-still-haunts-labour/

‘Never kissed a Tory’ is a cliche in some parts of the Labour Party, but the thing that is worse than a Tory is the opposite wing of the party.

I work in the public sector. I've been voting Labour for well over 30 years. I was a party member. If they can't persuade me to vote for them then they aren't going to tempt a Tory.

@DerAlteMann not verbally maybe. But through policies yes.
And even Johnson has made controversial witticisms about certain minorities etc. Surely actions are more important than words but even then I have never heard Lib Dem’s or Labour Party mps actively insult the electorate.
People are very easily offended in the UK. It’s well documented that celebrity culture appeals to people more than politics. There is also a class system and some people defer to their social betters unwittingly. How is it insulting to suggest that some people are easily impressed by a well spoken smartly dressed individual - there has been much discussion in the press about Johnson being a posh toff.

[quote Desmorelda]@MrsWooster not plaintive at all. I'm not a brit so I really couldn't care less but I live here and work within public services. You are then happy for the tories to plunge eyes deep into the trough for the few no ? Mealy mouth talk about turning the UK into a compassionate decent place is just talk, empty words, I think you call it a pipe dream. You hold other parties up to higher moral standards than the tories, so no opposition party can ever seriously have a go at government because they are not perfect. Things are falling apart around you but all I hear from this thread is but Labour are worse. I suppose it's fear of change who knows. But sad.[/quote]
For someone who "couldn't care less" OP, you're showing considerably more interest in this than many lifelong British citizens I know.

I work in the public sector. I've been voting Labour for well over 30 years. I was a party member. If they can't persuade me to vote for them then they aren't going to tempt a Tory.

How is it insulting to suggest that some people are easily impressed by a well spoken smartly dressed individual - there has been much discussion in the press about Johnson being a posh toff.

Sorry - smartly dressed?

You come across quite dishonestly and a bit sneery OP much like the Labour Party I can see why you're struggling to understand why the British public are desertly them in droves

*deserting

@DerAlteMann I am interested in politics. I enjoy chatting with my colleagues about the UK which goes down well
@merrymouse I guess it depends where you live if you think things are not working. My partner has relatives in Surrey. To visit them is like stepping into a different world where there are actually nice shops and cafes, decent schools etc. So I guess life is good there. Travel beyond that and maybe be not so much.
Look at the rest of Europe where they are not frightened of voting for something different. No fear of the greens for example but in the UK it would be ‘but they are all alternative left types, we can’t trust them’. Even Germany is now looking to centre left parties.

@Whinginadeville why am I sneery ?
That I think is on in your imagination.
How have the opposition parties sneered at people ?

The only way the Tories will lose the next election is for younger voters to turn out and vote at the same levels older voters do.

You’re not reading what I wrote , Des. Like most of my friends we are desperately sad about what the Tories are doing to this country but LABOUR AREN’T OFFERING ANYTHING. They are unelectable. They are choosing to allow the tories to remain in place. Yes, everyone should vote for Labour women issue aside just to get tories out because shit Labour is better than tory but its not going to happen. People simply will not vote for the unknown shit over the known shit and Labour are letting that happen.

Would Angela raynor make the UK fair or just go after people she perceives as stuck up toffs... And make their life a misery?

The Tories will lose when they have to face a competent opposition.

The greens have also been utterly mad and unelectable... Who knows maybe in the eu their green parties are actually credible.

Something has happened to die hard labour support or have they always been like this?

The two people who I know have voted tory for a few years but not what I'd described as fervent supporters..

One teen mum, he left home at 15... Got himself through school, work.. Then back to uni late twenties self funded.. Now funds a feckless dbkrther.. And feckless dad who never supported him
Sends his dc private, has amazing job, but hard hard hours and work.. Very skilled.

He's such a nice kind guy... Just wants to give his own dc the family and chances he didn't have. He gives to charity and is altruistic.

Also from the North!

Second is from large Catholic family in Liverpool.. Tons of siblings.. Depressed alcoholic dad/ violent often . Mum had a stroke. He was last youngest baby so she was quite old when he came along. He again didn't finish school.. And left for London at a young age and through skill and sheer luck ended up v wealthy.
The kindest.. Loveliest person I've ever met. He said he used to be able huge socialist and the scales fell from his eyes as the years went on.

It pains me that the likes of thug raynor calls them expletives... It's so blinkered and just thick.

The greens have also been utterly mad and unelectable... Who knows maybe in the eu their green parties are actually credible.

Something has happened to die hard labour support or have they always been like this?

The two people who I know have voted tory for a few years but not what I'd described as fervent supporters..

One teen mum, he left home at 15... Got himself through school, work.. Then back to uni late twenties self funded.. Now funds a feckless dbkrther.. And feckless dad who never supported him
Sends his dc private, has amazing job, but hard hard hours and work.. Very skilled.

He's such a nice kind guy... Just wants to give his own dc the family and chances he didn't have. He gives to charity and is altruistic.

Also from the North!

Second is from large Catholic family in Liverpool.. Tons of siblings.. Depressed alcoholic dad/ violent often . Mum had a stroke. He was last youngest baby so she was quite old when he came along. He again didn't finish school.. And left for London at a young age and through skill and sheer luck ended up v wealthy.
The kindest.. Loveliest person I've ever met. He said he used to be able huge socialist and the scales fell from his eyes as the years went on.

It pains me that the likes of thug raynor calls them expletives... It's so blinkered and just thick.

Yes, everyone should vote for Labour women issue aside just to get tories out because shit Labour is better than tory

You say that like its a fact but it's just your opinion. This whole thread is about why Labour are unelectable so it's clearly not true

I agree with what you say @Autumngoldleaf She is a liability. It's sad because I think Starmer has potential but such are the stresses in the LP pulling it from all different directions he has no leeway. He has so many different factions (right word ?) to satisfy.

As all other posters have been saying.. labour isn't doing themselves any favours. That's the only reason Johnson made it in the first place.