What do the tories have to do to lose an election ?

[Desmorelda]

There have been suggestions in the press that within the next year Johnson will call a general election what with the infighting going on in the LP and life for many returning to normal.
At the moment the Tories are still garnering a decent percentage of prospective votes in polls. On a recent thread about Angela Rayner's choice language most posters were incensed that the PM had been subjected to such insults and felt that this genuinely made the opposition unelectable, such was
her threat to the moral fabric of the UK. However bad things are, people seem to have short memories at election time. Default vote is for the tories, however fiscally inept they are, despite multiple incidents of cronyism and corruption, dishonesty, documented lying in parliament.
I appreciate other parties are equally as incompetent but in a more bumbling, less cynical way. The Tories on the other hand are tefal plated and are not subjected to the same rigorous moral standards as the lib dems or the LP, both by the press and voters. I find it mystifying as someone not born in this country that people are so complacent and forgiving. So I just wondered how bad do the Tories have to be to lose your vote. Or maybe explain what have they done so well in the last 11 years to deserve your vote ?

The basis of the Self ID policies that the Labour Party now endorse is that sex is a social construct. This is based on post modernist theory that rejects materialist Marxist concepts like class analysis. Not just sex, but anything quantified in language and policy is a matter for individuals to decide. The kind of objective analysis that creates policies that keep libraries open is rejected.

They’re only believing in non reality ^as it applies to
Women. Because Labour are sexist. They don’t apply the same illogic to themselves^ as men, or as privileged women, or as too young to understand women. Or as well meaning ignorant women or men who think being nice or kind is more important than safeguarding and strengthening women’s or children’s rights.

Labour still knows perfectly what poverty and government chaos is when they see it. I just bloody hope they’re working hard on some strategies to help sort that out, rather than pissing about wasting energy trying not to offend misogynists.

So I’m not going to vote for Tory devastation because Labour are plagued with a particular set of sexist shits at the moment. Because ALL the parties have sexist shits in them on the trans issue and they ALL need to be prioritising tackling poverty, climate change, the catastrophic fuck up of Brexit. None of which are things the Tories are known for.

Every single party except the communists is massively sexist on this trans issue. I’m not voting for them either as much as I would agree with them on that one point. Obviously it’s impossible to actually change sex, people need to be able to live with that knowledge.

@Kittii what a ridiculous analogy. So because Labour Party membership is fairly youthful and idealistic, wants to get a better deal for everyone but especially for younger people, you compare them to stroppy teenagers Much of mumsnet over the pandemic was bemoaning the plight of young people but somehow now their concerns are unfounded.
Easy insults.
Complacency did for majors government of the 90s as did sleaze . Eventually there will be a tipping point especially as the effects of Brexit kick in. The loss of Amersham was a huge shock, hopefully there will be more.

It will shatter my heart if I have to vote Tory again. I really don’t want any too, give me a party, any party, that’s 1/5th decent and won’t dismantle women and I will be there voting for them. There is none, only Tory, and they haven’t said they will protect women, but they haven’t said they will actively try and take away their rights, so they are the only party available! It’s cruel!

It's up to Labour to put forward policies that appeal to the majority of voters.

They simply do not do that otherwise they would have been elected. Calling tories scum etc implies their voters are scum so clearly that party doesn't represent them.

It’s been suggested that people vote Tory as it’s in the best interests of their own family. But things like the NHS not being properly funded; businesses having to pay for loads of red tape if they want to import and export to Europe, so prices go up; local authority services like libraries having to be cut; taxing earned income and cutting the tax credits that top up low wages, while leaving rental income and investments untouched... Don’t all those Tory policies leave ordinary families worse off?

I think more the issue is the tories apparent success is actually labours failure.

People will carry on voting blue until we have a decent opposition. An opposition which actually pulls old labour supporters back as well as appeal to true Tory voters.

I also think so many people are so despondent with politics and when you look at the options, what good choices are there? Absolutely none!

[quote Desmorelda]@Kittii what a ridiculous analogy. So because Labour Party membership is fairly youthful and idealistic, wants to get a better deal for everyone but especially for younger people, you compare them to stroppy teenagers Much of mumsnet over the pandemic was bemoaning the plight of young people but somehow now their concerns are unfounded.
Easy insults.
Complacency did for majors government of the 90s as did sleaze . Eventually there will be a tipping point especially as the effects of Brexit kick in. The loss of Amersham was a huge shock, hopefully there will be more.[/quote]
You have misunderstood the analogy. It's nothing to do with the Labour Party being so-called "youthful" and "wanting a better deal for younger people" and where have I said that the concerns of younger people are "unfounded"? You are going off on a rant of your own here that isn't based at all on what I said. You shouldn't be so quick to judge and assume and misread

I'm saying that the attitude of many Labour MPs and supporters is stroppy and name-calling without having anything of substance to add. Like a teenager moaning and criticising things but not being bothered to get out of bed and do anything about it.

You don't have to vote Tory if you can't buy into Labour's disdain for dinosaurs and bodies with vaginas. Spoiling a vote is a perfectly legitimate means of political protest. I thought I would be devastated about doing this, but I wasn't in the end.

Agree that all parties have sexists in them, but only one party with any realistic shot at government in the next 10 years has demonised its own supporters and MP over this issue. I can't vote for a party that is willing to tolerate this and aims to bring in legislation which will take women's rights so appallingly backwards. Everyone has their line in the sand. This is the line for many of us.

I'm not convinced they can lose the next election unless they forget to nominate candidates in more than 50% of constituencies.

To lose an election the Tories need to be opposed by a credible opposition and that does not look like being a possibility at the moment.

I am a Tory voter but had high hopes for Keir Starmer offering a credible opposition party but sadly that has not been the case.

I'm in an area of Tory v Liberal Democrat although I would think a fair number of the electorate would not have a clue who the leader of the Liberal Democrat party was.

@user1497787065 what has Starmer done wrong given he hasn't produced a manifesto yet ? And why is Johnson better ?

@Spaceman1

There is no credible alternative to the Tories right now.

That does not mean you should vote Tory, if you dont stand for your beliefs, don't vote for them.

When the UK is in a healthy financial position Labour looks good to people and they are willing to give them a go to see what will happen.
ie spend spend spend.
However when the Uk has no money there is nothing Labour can punt to the public to make them want to vote for them.

Students signed up as Labour were going to write of student debts, increase public spending and such, but this has now past.

You now have to wait till the Torys put the UK back on an even footage, so Labour can bankrupt us if they get in... again...

You now have to wait till the Torys put the UK back on an even footage, so Labour can bankrupt us if they get in... again...

We've all been waiting quite a long time, haven't we? I've never really understood why so many people think the conservatives are the party of fiscal responsibility, there is very little evidence of it.

'But to answer the original question, the Tories don't have to do anything to lose - or win for that matter. Labour keep handing it to them on a silver platter.'

This. While Momentum is waiting in the wings, Labour is unelectable.

Get rid of Momentum and the TWAW rubbish, and they might stand a chance.

Because at the moment there is no credible opposition so people obviously think 'better the devil you know'

I have been a lifelong Tory voter but never again. I'm politically homeless at the moment.

Well this might be why we all think Labour spend all the money...

@Desmorelda

Why are you ignoring @Effic’s post

@Bollindger

Well this might be why we all think Labour spend all the money...

An ill-judged joke that someone made (and has repeatedly apologized for) in 2010? That's how you decide how to vote?

Things will have to get a lot worse for a lot of people for the Tories to lose the next election
I think this is the thing. Life isn't quite as shit and terrible at the moment for the vast majority as some people paint it on mumsnet. I really think it's a tactical error to make out it is, because most people don't relate to it.

Many a true word is said in Jest.
My vote alone does not win an election, however there have been many elections side this NOTE was left and every time Labour lose.
Why would that be.

@Marguerite2000

Things will have to get a lot worse for a lot of people for the Tories to lose the next election I think this is the thing. Life isn't quite as shit and terrible at the moment for the vast majority as some people paint it on mumsnet. I really think it's a tactical error to make out it is, because most people don't relate to it.

Well I imagine between now and the next general election this will change somewhat!

Desmorelda
You are clearly intent on ignoring my post despite other posters referencing it but I’ll answer yours around how Labour can be judged when they haven’t been in power for 11 years …. I would suggest that in the last 11 years, the Labour Party and its members have put forward and passionately advocated that Milliband and his policies are the answer; then Corbyn and his policies are the answer and now Starmer and his emerging policies are the answer despite them being substantially different. So it appears that labour doesn’t actually know what it believes or have a firm ideology and that makes it feel that it’s all at the whim of the leaders.

The Tories have pretty consistent policies that don’t change much really so voters know what they are getting and the ideology is pretty consistent.

People like consistency. Leaders are temporary.

@Almaisnormal

They are shit....but the opposition is shittier

There's your answer in a nutshell. They are the best of an appallingly bad bunch. Labour spend to much time in-fighting and coming up with ideas that they never seem to be able to explain how they will be paid for. The Lib-Dems are too scattered to be able to get traction and the Greens are frankly bizarre at times. The various nationalists don't stand on a nationwide basis. The choice is, realistically, vote Tory or don't vote at all.