What do the tories have to do to lose an election ?

[Desmorelda]

There have been suggestions in the press that within the next year Johnson will call a general election what with the infighting going on in the LP and life for many returning to normal.
At the moment the Tories are still garnering a decent percentage of prospective votes in polls. On a recent thread about Angela Rayner's choice language most posters were incensed that the PM had been subjected to such insults and felt that this genuinely made the opposition unelectable, such was
her threat to the moral fabric of the UK. However bad things are, people seem to have short memories at election time. Default vote is for the tories, however fiscally inept they are, despite multiple incidents of cronyism and corruption, dishonesty, documented lying in parliament.
I appreciate other parties are equally as incompetent but in a more bumbling, less cynical way. The Tories on the other hand are tefal plated and are not subjected to the same rigorous moral standards as the lib dems or the LP, both by the press and voters. I find it mystifying as someone not born in this country that people are so complacent and forgiving. So I just wondered how bad do the Tories have to be to lose your vote. Or maybe explain what have they done so well in the last 11 years to deserve your vote ?

How could you possibly vote for a party that is so determined to deprive half of the population of their rights?

The Conservative party could literally do anything and they will get a majority - that's how far off from reality Labour/ Liberals/ Greens are.

How can they say that more needs to be done to protect women and children from male violence and rape when they support putting male
bodied rapists that identify as women in female prisons?

Things will have to get a lot worse for a lot of people for the Tories to lose the next election. I find it mind boggling we have so many cap-doffing people in this country who would actually choose the embarrassing joke that is Johnson, over Starmer - who comes across as decent, intelligent and hard-working.

I’m sorry to sound like a stuck record, but the comment on cervixes was neither decent nor intelligent.

Still - that's where we are, and as long as Love Island or something equally mindless is on TV, the masses are happy.

I think you need to read effic’s post above.

Nothing. Just sit back and let folk listen to the likes of Angela Raynor.

Fuck a pig on camera? I have no idea… but it seems as if nothing will make them lose.

@merrymouse. Agree.
Starmer is scared of his own party imo.
Not surprised though, they’re bonkers and I used to be a Labour supporter.

Why do people vote Conservative?

First, there's a clue in the name which speaks of conservation of traditional values and aversion to change. As a rule, people do not like change. They like to know what they're getting, even if it's more of the same crap to which they've become accustomed.

Secondly, Labour are very angry, and people don't want angry people representing them. Labour will openly attack the wealthy whereas Conservative do not. Therefore, if you have accumulated some wealth, or have aspirations of becoming rich in the future, a Labour Government will likely punish you for this in taxes. I often wonder how many vocal champagne socialists actually vote Conservative on the quiet.

Why do people vote Conservative?

First, there's a clue in the name which speaks of conservation of traditional values and aversion to change. As a rule, people do not like change. They like to know what they're getting, even if it's more of the same crap to which they've become accustomed.

Secondly, Labour are very angry, and people don't want angry people representing them. Labour will openly attack the wealthy whereas Conservative do not. Therefore, if you have accumulated some wealth, or have aspirations of becoming rich in the future, a Labour Government will likely punish you for this in taxes. I often wonder how many vocal champagne socialists actually vote Conservative on the quiet.

I always think of Labour like a stroppy, entitled teenager calling Tories names and strutting around with a "holier than thou" attitude while actually lying in bed all day doing nothing but fighting with their siblings. Oh and, of course, trying to erase women and saying that they should shut up about their rights otherwise they're bigots.

How long before they start saying there's no such things as women and if you disagree you're a right wing bigot?

If you listened to Starmer's speech you would have heard about his deep concern about rape convictions and how he is going to tackle this. The issues surrounding the definition of women in all the opposition parties are concerning, but the wider problem is the reaction any politician gets to saying anything remotely gender critical - it's brutal. At least Labour do have some politicians who have spoken out. There are many problems facing this country, most of them associated with the Tory lack of investment in public services and the mental Brexit they have imposed on us ... people on the breadline don't have the bandwidth to be concerned about gender issues.

They are shit....but the opposition is shittier

This 100 percent.

At least Labour do have some politicians who have spoken out.

Conservative politicians have spoken out, including Liz Truss who changed policy on self ID and is now Fiteign secretary.

Starmer can’t even bring himself to publicly address threats against Rosie Duffield.

If he can’t talk clearly about this, why do you think he has the capacity to create policy on anything?

It’s really simple. ‘Woman’ can be used to refer just to sex, so the phrase ‘only women have cervixes’ is true and necessary.

I mean Foreign Secretary!

But how can the opposition be shittier? Give us some evidence. They've not been in power for 11 years. Uk in the late 90s early 2000s was not like this. I think it's a lame tired excuse. The tory's reputation for fiscal competence is long gone. How many tory councils have become bankrupt ? People use that excuse because it makes them feel better. They moan about appalling public services, state of the country, homeless, foodbanks, house prices etc but when push comes to shove they just revert to what they know.

@merrymouse I don't disagree and it is disappointing given his legal background that currently Starmer does not voice concern about the how we define women in terms of legal ramifications ... and I know various Tories have spoken up too, but the direction this country is travelling at the hands of the Tories is not a direction that appeals ... the gap between the rich and the poor is widening, the economy is struggling due to Brexit-related problems on top of Covid, the NHS is under massive pressure (and no sign of the 350bn promised by Gove and Johnson in 2016), freedoms and opportunities stripped away from young people thanks to Brexit, weakened global standing, price rises ... I could go on. The gender debate will come to a head at some point, and the news connected with Sports is encouraging ... but I think most people are not really thinking about it. They should be, but they aren't.

But @merrymouse what impresses you about the tories enough to vote for them ? Brexit ? Their conduct during the pandemic ? What things have really changed for the better in the UK over the last 11 years ?
It's laughable and somewhat tragic that no longer does a government have to achieve anything to improve the lives of its people, that in reality it can materially damage the very lives and futures of its people but the opposition has to better .

@SancerreSunsets

Things will have to get a lot worse for a lot of people for the Tories to lose the next election. I find it mind boggling we have so many cap-doffing people in this country who would actually choose the embarrassing joke that is Johnson, over Starmer - who comes across as decent, intelligent and hard-working. Johnson, who has delivered us the worst version of Brexit possible, who embarrasses us on the world stage, who can't get a grip on crises, who takes money from those least able to pay it whilst giving his loaded mates lucrative contracts for doing a rubbish job. Still - that's where we are, and as long as Love Island or something equally mindless is on TV, the masses are happy.

You vote for the local mp or the party that represents you. If you're voting based on the current leader you should stick to x factor instead of sneering at the masses.

They're doing well at sabotaging themselves. It won't last for ever.

@StMarysKettle are you seriously telling me that people don't think about the leader of a party when voting? Tell that to all the people I spoke to during the last election who couldn't stop talking about Johnson or Corbyn ... and most of whom didn't even know the name of their local candidate. To add to that ... due to FPTP, many politically aware people find themselves having to vote for a local candidate they are not particularly enthusiastic about since a vote for the candidate they would really like to represent them would be a wasted vote.

But @merrymouse what impresses you about the tories enough to vote for them ?

I live in a completely safe seat, so it’s more relevant to ask ‘why wouldn’t you bother to register your protest vote?’

However, I realise that isn’t the case for everyone.

I would say the Tories are currently slightly more conversant with reality. Believe me I know that sets a very low bar, but Starmer still isn’t able to clear it. As for David Lammy’s belief (after 3 children) that it’s possible for a man to grow a cervix with hormones… Good grief.

@yodaforpresident how could anyone vote for a party that attacks the disabled and poor, many of whom are women ? Lets the infrastructure of the country crumble due to austerity, so some areas no longer have libraries, swimming pools for ordinary w/c families (my area a good example), cancels surestart, cuts legal aid, reduces a police force to bare bones so women are unsafe on the streets ....but yeah opposition parties are worse

I’ll vote for a party who will rejoin us to the EU. I am fucking terrified of this Tory bumbling arrogance and incompetence and barefaced lying to us eg ‘there no shortage of petrol’ and how that’s going to play out for us over the next few years once we’re really mired in it.
With a climate crisis and pandemic and ageing population and all the rest of it to tackle we need a robust socially minded government, and unity with other countries not a government who will always put their own business interests first. We can’t just abandon whole sections of society and swathes of the country, which is the Tory way.

Lets the infrastructure of the country crumble due to austerity, so some areas no longer have libraries, swimming pools for ordinary w/c families (my area a good example), cancels surestart, cuts legal aid, reduces a police force to bare bones so women are unsafe on the streets

But how will the Labour Party reverse any of this if the leaders are fully signed up to the idea that reality is just a social construct?

What on earth does that mean in real language ?

Well for most of them last 10 years Labor have been unelectable due to Corbyn and I'm not sure that many people know that he isn't still leader or who the new one is.

Lib Dems aren't trusted as they broke the one promise (tuition fees) that got them into a shared government in the first place.

Also it doesn't help that not all parties are represented in every constituency, it means you are pretty much always limited to either voting for one of the 2 parties that are likely to win rather than who you want to vote for. If you wanted to say vote for the Monster Raving Loony party, well you probably can't because they aren't on your ballet paper and have almost no chance of winning if they were.