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What do the tories have to do to lose an election ?

286 replies

Desmorelda · 29/09/2021 22:11

There have been suggestions in the press that within the next year Johnson will call a general election what with the infighting going on in the LP and life for many returning to normal.
At the moment the Tories are still garnering a decent percentage of prospective votes in polls. On a recent thread about Angela Rayner's choice language most posters were incensed that the PM had been subjected to such insults and felt that this genuinely made the opposition unelectable, such was
her threat to the moral fabric of the UK. However bad things are, people seem to have short memories at election time. Default vote is for the tories, however fiscally inept they are, despite multiple incidents of cronyism and corruption, dishonesty, documented lying in parliament.
I appreciate other parties are equally as incompetent but in a more bumbling, less cynical way. The Tories on the other hand are tefal plated and are not subjected to the same rigorous moral standards as the lib dems or the LP, both by the press and voters. I find it mystifying as someone not born in this country that people are so complacent and forgiving. So I just wondered how bad do the Tories have to be to lose your vote. Or maybe explain what have they done so well in the last 11 years to deserve your vote ?

OP posts:
RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 01/10/2021 10:45

Im not voting tory, and I won’t be voting labour

(Obviously based on today….you never know what might happen before the next election)

StormTreader · 01/10/2021 10:53

People are still desperately clinging to the idea that the shitshow of the last ten years is all some kind of buildup of a master plan that will suddenly come together into some glorious sunny resolution.

The tories are the perfect example of "just get through today because there might be jam tomorrow".
Once they do eventually get booted out, they'll claim that if they'd just had one more term, everything would have been lollipops and rainbows but the voters had to go spoil it.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 01/10/2021 10:55

Once they do eventually get booted out, they'll claim that if they'd just had one more term, everything would have been lollipops and rainbows but the voters had to go spoil it

Absolutely

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

MarleneDietrichsSmile · 01/10/2021 11:13

I don’t know anyone who is clinging to these lollipop ideas/illusions

Not a single person

Desmorelda · 01/10/2021 11:30

I don't think anyone is clinging to anything. Life goes on as normal for most. Only when people are directly affected will they possibly change their political persuasion. Or maybe not.
@RufustheBadgeringReindeer I acknowledged some of those decent posts. Effics post was a bit run of the mill, nothing I've not heard before Wink

OP posts:
always2tired · 01/10/2021 11:33

@Effic

Why (I think) people vote Tory & they are still ahead in the polls ….

Euro scepticism/ Brexit - it’s not a new thing. Tories were the only party to show some critical thinking around Europe and appeared to ‘listen’ to voters concerns and issues. Labour just called them all racist thickos. But the concerns of these voters (which they were told were unequivocally wrong) now appear correct. Working class people said that cheap foreign labour was driving down wages and working conditions …… they were absolutely told how wrong/thick/racist they were but now the situation around firstly hospitality workers and now lorry drivers seems to be confirming what they already thought. Wages are going up in both industries due to a shortage of staff and employers can no longer treat them like shit knowing there is an endless supply cos there isn’t. Care workers will be next I think. That’s a lot of people’s lived reality at the moment.

Current shortages ….. a few clicks in any news website tells you that it’s the same around the world. And it’s hardly Armageddon that you can’t get a McDonald’s milkshake! Voters are mainly still grateful to be getting back to some sort of normal. Very few people think that the world essentially shutting for two years wouldn’t have major repercussions so no one is blaming the Tories for anything that has its origins in COVID so it’s providing good ‘cover’ and quite frankly Labour look stupid doing so

The Tory party ask for your vote not your heart and they do not lecture, belittle and insult the very people they need to vote for them. The Tory party is not a cult. They list their policies and ask people to vote for them. Labour list their policies and then tell everyone that doesn’t whole wholeheartedly agree and endorse every word that they are thick, misogynistic, racist, and actually tells them they don’t want their vote. They want to tell you how to think and speak and police it venomously. Even if you think the trans issue is niche, the general outpouring of utter woke nonsense from Labour just puts people off. As PP have said, most people are small ‘c’ conservative so this just pushes them away. And blaming the media just annoys people as it’s basically continuing the rhetoric that people are all so thick that they can’t see the ‘truth’ as laid out by Labour which is kind of ironic. And it’s hard to blame the media when you have actual MPs tweeting their wokeness direct to the world.

Because it’s not a cult, the Tory party changes leaders like socks. There is a bit of political intrigue and then it’s fine. Boris is the first ‘popular’ leader they’ve had in a while so probably a few people did vote for him but mostly people voted for their perception of good policies not the leader who could change any day so boris isn’t the liability he should be. And everyone knows that the minute he becomes one, the Tories will dispatch him effortlessly.

Most people vote for themselves and their families. The Tory party ask voters to vote for what they think is best for themselves and their families and position themselves accordingly. Labour ask voters to vote for what’s best for society and claim they can deliver this utopia. Voters don’t believe them but even if they do, mostly people care more about themselves and their families 🤷‍♀️

I could go on but I won’t mainly because generally the Labour voters that ask this question just launch into a load of whataboutery but that is my opinion.

Fantastic post Effic very insightful I think the OP isn't in your league to respond to your argument that's why avoiding a direct response to you.
mylittleyumyum · 01/10/2021 11:53

I think independence is the only way for us North of the border to get shot of them. The majority of Scots do not vote Tory.

gingercatsparky · 01/10/2021 11:59

I think that the rich, older people and pensioners will always vote for them. They aren't affected by many of the cuts or their policies and they are looked after by the tories. I know that's why my dad votes for them time and time again. The last Labour seemed too radical for him and I except many others. Until this demographic who are looked after by them dies out and there is no feasible opposition then I think they will continue to be in.

I actually voted Labour last time, I want the Tories out. I won't vote for either this time though as I just don't think I can. I need to do some more research but might vote green.

Lykia · 01/10/2021 12:22

@Toodlydoo

I don’t think it’s the media that puts people off voting Labour I think it’s Labour. The identity politics stuff, the activists going around demanding that people justify themselves, the smugness the hectoring. Ithink it’s true that the right think the left is misguided and the left think the right is evil.

Theres a giant dollop of moral licensing on the left which is a turn off for normal people. “It’s fine to call people scum because it’s true and I’m pure and a good person so it doesn’t matter what I say or how I behave” except a yougov poll suggests that only 19% of people think that it was fine for Rayner to call people scum - those are voters.

It’s also mischaracterising why people vote, really strange ideas abound that tories worship Boris. I don’t think that’s true at all it’s just that they like the other bloke (and in Labour’s case it’s always a bloke) even less. I don’t know anyone who voted conservative and doesn’t roll their eyes at Boris. Momentum looked like a cult from the outside that was off putting to centre ground people.

Labour activists seem to think you can shame people into voting the “right” way. It doesn’t work. The cons don’t have to do anything tbh.

This 100%

I really don't think Tory voters like BJ and I imagine there was a lot of nose holding at the polls.

However Corbyn made people afraid of the LP. Yes he's gone but A Rayner's still there and people are afraid that she could become PM. And that would be a scary though to a lot of people. People are afraid if labour and their identity politics.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 01/10/2021 12:25

We’ll leave it there desmorelda 😊

Its been a very interesting thread

Thekolschisonme · 01/10/2021 12:32

Funnily enough I didn't realise a similar question had been asked a week or so ago. The posts that received were far more sceptical about the tories. Admittedly they also bemoaned labours poor showing.
@always2tired what's with love for Effic ? Grin Just meaningless apologist excuses for a piss poor
government. Dress it up how you will the country expects and deserves better.
awaits the usual accusations of being patronising

samsalmon · 01/10/2021 12:46

@ZednotZee

A colleague of mine said that Johnson could rape your mum and dad bent over the living room sofa, after Sunday lunch, in full view of both you and the neighbours and tory voters would still make excuses for his actions.

I'm minded to agree with him.

Well that’s just a load of rubbish, isn’t it? That’s just another way of saying that most people are too thick to see how evil he is/the Tories are. Maybe that is a big part of the problem.

The left is splintered, that’s a big issue. The Tories and their mindset very much represent the status quo mindset in this country and to challenge that, you have to present something very appealing, very coherent, very credible, very insightful. People like Angela Raynor simply do not do that, by the things they choose to focus on and how they choose to present themselves. It’s not that she’s ‘a threat to the moral fabric of this country’, ffs.

I have never voted Tory, by the way, and can’t imagine ever doing so. Definitely one of the politically homeless right now.

samsalmon · 01/10/2021 12:48

In other words, I wouldn’t vote for Angela Raynor just because she’s not Boris Johnson or whatever. They would both have to earn my vote.

GoWalkabout · 01/10/2021 12:53

I haven't voted for them yet because my local mp is Jacob Rees Mogg.
However
Truss speaks up for women
Raab spoke for the Uighur Muslims
Javid spoke against child marriage as child abuse and focused on the realities of this within his own community.
I vote for good people locally and I support some of the work that this government has done. I cannot think of one thing Labour or Lib Dems have suggested promoted or done that isn't a complete shit show.

Thekolschisonme · 01/10/2021 12:56

I think portraying her as a threat to the moral fabric of the country was sarcasm. The pearl clutching that she had used such language to attack him. I think she is clearly a liability btw but there was a degree of overreaction.

Lykia · 01/10/2021 13:08

Do Labour actually want to win an election? I believe K Starmer does but Corbyn didn't. I truly believe becoming PM wasn't his goal and he would have pooped himself if he had won.

Whilst I feel KS would like to become PM why is he still focusing on identity politics? He knows that's not a vote winner. Rights holding dinosaurs/cervix gate/calling the opposition scum do not win votes. Why on earth did he alienate 51% of his voters?

So you have to ask yourself do he/LP really want to win or are they happy nitpicking from the sides? From what I see it seems to be the latter.

redfernstation · 01/10/2021 13:17

@mylittleyumyum

I think independence is the only way for us North of the border to get shot of them. The majority of Scots do not vote Tory.
The tories do not have a majority in wales or England either
GianaSister · 01/10/2021 13:45

I think that the rich, older people and pensioners will always vote for them. They aren't affected by many of the cuts or their policies and they are looked after by the tories. I know that's why my dad votes for them time and time again. The last Labour seemed too radical for him and I except many others. Until this demographic who are looked after by them dies out and there is no feasible opposition then I think they will continue to be in.

Er…humans age. If you’re putting it solely on old people and pensioners then you’re going to be waiting an infinitely long time.

ScreamingMeMe · 01/10/2021 16:07

@MarleneDietrichsSmile

I don’t know anyone who is clinging to these lollipop ideas/illusions

Not a single person

Why can't left wingers who still vote Labour just listen to what people are saying? They always make these wild assumptions, which are far off the mark, and it's a big part of what puts people off Labour. (That and the sneering affectations of moral superiority many of them exhibit.)

(I spoiled my ballot paper. It was the only choice for me, I felt.)

mondayschild21 · 01/10/2021 17:43

OP you are someone not from the UK. When before the pandemic I was on holiday abroad, I got asked on a few occasions about Brexit and then about Mr Johnson, and how this can happen. I still maintain that the vote for Brexit was a protest that went wrong, and no-one expected other than a Remain result.

As for good things over the last 11 years, the list is not very long. I'd probably include same-sex marriage as one, but that was from cross-party support.

GianaSister · 01/10/2021 19:27

@mondayschild21

OP you are someone not from the UK. When before the pandemic I was on holiday abroad, I got asked on a few occasions about Brexit and then about Mr Johnson, and how this can happen. I still maintain that the vote for Brexit was a protest that went wrong, and no-one expected other than a Remain result.

As for good things over the last 11 years, the list is not very long. I'd probably include same-sex marriage as one, but that was from cross-party support.

Is OP an expat? Where are they from ?
julieca · 01/10/2021 19:35

We are basically a right-wing country, although Scotland isn't. Labour periodically swings to the left and loses any chance of getting elected. It is only when it claims the centre-ground that it has a chance.

Bollindger · 01/10/2021 20:05

I kid you not, as a Tory voter, i watched Labour and was waiting for David Miliband to become the Next :Labour Leader, I was going to vote for him, as Labour hadn't done that bad a job, Yes I know TB ended up going power mad, but I really did want them to continue on their course.
I remember the shock when his Brother stabbed him in the back, and Knew Ed would never be elected , He thought he was a shoe in, that stone tablet was so funny.
I will always remember that night and how it ended.

julieca · 01/10/2021 20:12

Yes I wish David Milliband had been elected. Tony Blair needed to go, but a lot of the broader policies were good.

MarleneDietrichsSmile · 01/10/2021 20:21

Yes, David Milliband! Somewhere in a parallel universe….