Ds11 has rages and calls me a ‘fucking moron’

[Lavenderpillow]

Had another one this morning. Was discussing with him using some of his birthday money towards a computer game he wants. You would think that would be a calm discussion. I was drying my hair while we were talking and he got agitated and came over and turned the hair dryer off and accused me of ‘cutting him off’. I explained I was still listening and just needed to dry my cold, wet hair! He started ranting about sharing the computer game with his dad who sometimes plays it too, and I said he should just discuss it with his dad then. I could see he was getting really worked up and suggested we have a 15 minute time out so he could calm down and stop ranting. He went into his room and I saw he hadn’t eaten his breakfast so I told him to eat it. He then kicked either the balloon or the breakfast (which were next to each other) and the breakfast exploded everywhere. He then started shouting at me and I said we need a time out for an hour or so and he screamed and called me a fucking moron.

I told him he was to stay in his room all morning, clean everything up and that he had really upset me.

The rest of the time he is a really loving boy. I don’t get why he has these horrible rages and turns into a monster.

I feel really upset this morning and don’t know how to handle it.

@DragonDoor

I wonder if the 11year old was female would some of the responses here be different. Some posters have made specific negative references to the child’s sex which is a little odd if they claim to be feminists. It sounds anti men, which is not what feminism is.

It’s a positive thing for young males to develop emotional intelligence, this can be reinforced by parents who seek to teach a child to develop self awareness, in addition to setting boundaries.

Taking a discipline focused approach only, especially with older children and teens, can lead to low self esteem and a lack of ability to self regulate their behaviour. Which would be the opposite of what anyone would want to see in young men as they grow up…

Emotional intelligence? As in 'don't call your mother a fucking moron and kick off about not having her attention'? I'm sure now he had to clear up and then go to his room, that will sort him right out

I cannot believe people are making excuses for this 11 year old’s horrendous behaviour

They're not excuses. They are suggestions about how to parent him to avoid this in future.

IME (30 years in housing vulnerable people, SS, working with addictions and offending) wishy washy parenting doesn't cause violence. What causes male violence is unhealthy male expectations including suppressing emotion, witnessing abuse and violence, a culture of violence, poor boundaries and neglectful and abusive parenting.

Giving good, focused attention, meeting needs, communicating effectively and proper boundaries works.

And BTW I'm quite sure none of the parents responding, including me, would have been buying the game today. Regardless of how I feel the interaction could have been managed better, the consequences of the outcome aren't buying the game.

Well he certainly didn't suppress his violence, I will grant you that

Actually I think if the child in this scenario was a girl the responses would be far less favourable. There is still a very ingrained belief that girls just get emotional nuances and should sense when people are getting pissed off. Whilst poor boys have to be taught this.
I think a lot is to do with expectations. If you expect boys to be loose cannons then you create boys who are loose cannons.

Emotional intelligence? As in 'don't call your mother a fucking moron and kick off about not having her attention'? I'm sure now he had to clear up and then go to his room, that will sort him right out

Yes, exactly this. The child wasn’t showing emotional intelligence and had flew of the handle and swore.

Big only sending a child to their room and leaving it at that doesn’t teach them as much as following up the consequence later with a calm conversation.

If you raise boys not to be able to express emotions except anger, you get anger.

But if you let boys express other emotions and feelings through anger, you get angry men. Same is true of girls. But they don't often get away with expressing emotions as anger.

Interesting to see if he will kick off at his dad as well

Agreed @LukeEvansWife. I wonder....

How do children learn to regulate their emotions?

They learn by internalising an experience of a parent who has this capacity themselves and uses it in their relationship with the child.

If he’s usually lovely it could be hormones. Of course it’s not acceptable for him to have rages or to speak to you like that but it is a tricky time and he may need careful handling.

My ds was quite tearful for no reason at that age although he didn’t really rage. Dd on the other hand is quite frankly a shouty, screeching, defiant nightmare. I try and ignore rather than react (which often takes a lot of effort on my part) as I know she doesn’t really mean the things she is saying. Instead I try and catch her when she is calm and discuss her behaviour and how she is feeling. I explain that even though I know she doesn’t mean it, the things she says are still very hurtful. She is generally very apologetic and upset because she isn’t quite sure where her outbursts are coming from.

It’s difficult but they are still children at this age, even though they aren’t always as loveable as when they are smaller. They need supporting through this and teaching what is and isn’t acceptable. It is bloody hard work though.

MN makes me laugh. On one thread someone asking if an 11 year old can be left alone for 10 minutes would be told "No definitely not they aren't possibly mature enough to be left alone, anything could happen!!" And on this thread we have people shouting "I can't believe you are making excuses fir his behaviour he should be shot at dawn for calling his mother a horrible name" when people suggest that an 11 year old may still need guidance and parenting. They aren't all sorted and done by age 10. IME they still need guidance on appropriate ways to behave right through the teenage years! And I don't think that will be news to any parent of a teenager!

And that parenting and guidance can take many forms. I am one of the strictest parents I know and one thing I have no tolerance for is being spoken to rudely; however there are many ways to skin a cat and just coming down hard on behaviour is not always the way to do it. Sometimes understanding why the behaviour has occurred is important, acknowledging issues or feelings so the child feels heard, along with teaching appropriate ways to handle conversations when they start to get heated or difficult or emotional. They don't come out knowing this stuff, it needs to be learnt and that happens at different ages for different children.

If my child uttered those words to me, or anyone else, it would be the last thing he did that day
That sounds very threatening.

Does he speak to his Dad like that/act aggresively towards his Dad?

@MrsTerryPratchett I made no mention of wishy washy parenting creating violent children. I certainly don’t believe that. In my (limited) experience of violent children, I’ve found that kind of behaviour is almost always the result of the child experiencing violence themselves.

I wrote that weak or wishy washy parenting creates entitled children and I stand by that. The kind of children who lack respect for others as they’ve learned they can behave badly without any consequences.

jane jeffers My comment about it being the last thing they did that day meant my child would be sent straight to their room for the remainder of the day / grounded. I appreciate that is not an popular course of action here. It seems an 11 year old who uses the most disgusting language towards his mother is simply grappling with his hormones so needs a pat on the head and a listening ear rather than punishment

It is normal for an 11 year old to struggle with their emotions. It is honestly not normal to use that kind of language towards a parent. I don’t know why people are pretending otherwise.

I don’t know why people are pretending otherwise.

Literally no one is. We are saying that there were ways to head off the behaviour before it happened. Obviously once it happens, you have to have consequences. That doesn't mean the consequences alone are the best way to parent. Consequences alone breed lying and avoidance.

@Ionlydomassiveones

“You failed to give him the attention he was asking for. Your continuing inattentiveness resulted in his frustration escalating.”

Bullshit. Women and mothers do not exist to simply give screaming males attention whatever their age. I’d have raised my voice and told him to leave the minute he started to escalate the aggression. I believe in grey rock with toddler tantrums and even more so with teenagers. I wouldn’t have even responded when the breakfast got kicked. Total blank response from a parent (though hard to brazen out) is quite unsettling for kids - especially if it’s followed up with a cold unemotional verbal response and a refusal to give away anything, but it is effective in restoring the power balance temporarily.

Once things calm, you become ‘normal’ mother again. Do that every time and it becomes a Pavlovian response because they know that aggression and lashing out is ultimately unproductive. They’re not stupid. They wouldn’t do this to their teachers or their friends, they are lashing out at you because it’s easy. Don’t let it be.

This

If my child called me a fucking moron id be wondering where id gone wrong that he felt that using that language at me was ok. Of course he wasn't calling himself a moron. He's said that to get out of trouble faster.

He wouldn't be seeing fifa for quite a while.

Could this be your son has just discovered that things cost.
The bit about his dad playing as well, maybe now he has calmed down you could offer him jobs at a set rate so he has more spending money.

There need to be consequences for such rages, or at least some things conditional on no rages. Start now and you will save a lot of aggro later.

His behaviour was totally out of order.
Mothers do NOT need to drop everything when their children demand attention. Children at some point need to learn that the world does not revolve around them. Obviously some posters here do think that women are subsumed by their mother role the moment they become mothers. This is utter bullshit and misogyny of the highest order.
There is nothing in OPs post to say that he was being ignored or treated disrespectfully.
No wonder young adults nowadays are often such insufferable knobs when they are brought up in such a way as some of the posters on here seem to think is best. Bloody hell.

@Lavenderpillow have you asked him why he gets so annoyed and wound up? Do you think it might be hormonal?

That doesn’t excuse the behaviour or the language (FWIW we are a sweary household but I would come down like a ton of brick on one of them swearing at someone else like you describe) but I do know that pre-pubertal outbursts can be completely irrational and explosive.

Taoneusa’s list is farcical and just explains how kids are growing up with no sense of appropriate adult behaviour as they are pandered to all the time. You did the right thing and he did as well by tidying up and apologising. I would have a serious conversation about throwing insults around, whether or not it’s true he was talking to you or to himself.

But how does the child learn how to cope when he feels people aren't listening to him and treating him with respect (which is pretty much in the eye of the beholder really). Because it will happen, probably a lot. People often don't think your need to feel respected is paramount.

It starts from being able to trust that you will be listened to by the people who should be treating the things that matter to you with respect (which is not the same as giving way to your wishes). And if that's not your parents, then who? Feeling confident that you can turn to them with something important to you, that they wont dismiss it as just silly game nonsense, that they will take the time to listen, if not right this minute, then in good time. With that confidence in place parents can start teaching the strategies you will need for dealing with the times when other people aren't listening and the things that matter to you aren't being respected. Strategies like stopping to think about when is a good time to talk and when isn't, finding other people who will listen and have the power to do something about it, speaking clearly and respectfully yourself, and keeping calm.

But you can't learn that stuff when you're already in an over-excited agitated state. You're not really taking much in. The best a parent can do is try to keep you calm enough so you can use whatever strategies they already have or at least avoid the outburst, and start the teaching at a better time. Being pro-active, not reactive.

id be wondering where id gone wrong that he felt that using that language at me was ok.

He said it because he knows it isn't OK. During an explosion people say things that they already know are not OK. That's why it's important for volatile people to learn how not to explode.

Of course he wasn't calling himself a moron. He's said that to get out of trouble faster.

Yes, I'm sure he wasn't really calling himself that. He's said that because he's embarrassed and ashamed now he's calmed down. He knows quite well he shouldn't have said it to his mother.

@Karmagoat

If my DS ever called me a fucking moron cos the little spoilt brat wasn't getting my full attention, it would certainly be the last time.

This… exactly this!! Too many entitled little brats think they can say what they like!! If my daughter spoke to me like that I honestly don’t think I could post what I’d do on MN.