Ds11 has rages and calls me a ‘fucking moron’

[Lavenderpillow]

Had another one this morning. Was discussing with him using some of his birthday money towards a computer game he wants. You would think that would be a calm discussion. I was drying my hair while we were talking and he got agitated and came over and turned the hair dryer off and accused me of ‘cutting him off’. I explained I was still listening and just needed to dry my cold, wet hair! He started ranting about sharing the computer game with his dad who sometimes plays it too, and I said he should just discuss it with his dad then. I could see he was getting really worked up and suggested we have a 15 minute time out so he could calm down and stop ranting. He went into his room and I saw he hadn’t eaten his breakfast so I told him to eat it. He then kicked either the balloon or the breakfast (which were next to each other) and the breakfast exploded everywhere. He then started shouting at me and I said we need a time out for an hour or so and he screamed and called me a fucking moron.

I told him he was to stay in his room all morning, clean everything up and that he had really upset me.

The rest of the time he is a really loving boy. I don’t get why he has these horrible rages and turns into a monster.

I feel really upset this morning and don’t know how to handle it.

He is 11yro and should be learning how to behave and have manners. he could see his Mother was busy so should have said he had wanted to talk about a new computer game and when would be a good time? Not expect his Mother to drop everything and give him 100% attention whenever he demands it. He is not a toddler and the situation was not life threatening.
As for swearing that needs to have very serious consequences because before you know it you will have an abusive teenager.

There comes a time when even the most tolerant of parents has to take a stand. This child could see very well that his mother was busy and yet still persisted in complaining about his game. His behaviour was utterly outrageous. We do our children no favours by removing all responsibility for self regulating their behaviour. It is also a fact that most pubertal boys will try to challenge their mothers at some point and this has got to be stopped , as it can quickly become abusive. I remember my own son getting in my face for something totally trivial at the age of 12 and experiencing real fear as he was almost a foot taller than me . Fortunately my husband was around and my son wasn't ready to challenge him. He was sent away with a flea in his ear and to his credit never did it again.

This child could see very well that his mother was busy and yet still persisted in complaining about his game

Hang on, she told him she was still listening when she clearly wasn’t. If someone had a hairdryer blasting and tried to tell me they were listening to me I’d be thinking they thought I was a moron. The OP is (or should be) more than capable of setting boundaries with her own child and telling them to wait instead of encouraging them.

@Cornettoninja

This child could see very well that his mother was busy and yet still persisted in complaining about his game

Hang on, she told him she was still listening when she clearly wasn’t. If someone had a hairdryer blasting and tried to tell me they were listening to me I’d be thinking they thought I was a moron. The OP is (or should be) more than capable of setting boundaries with her own child and telling them to wait instead of encouraging them.

He’d also followed her from the shower. Op didn’t handle this well as he should have been told to wait until she was good and ready to have the discussion and not trying to listen while blasting a hair dryer. It might be that the OP didn’t tell him to wait as he is constantly blowing up and wants things done in his time or that she wasn’t interested in the conversation either way she didn’t deal with it efficiently to begin with.

However, the OP handled it , nothing excuses subsequent behaviour.

Your Son should not be coming out with phrases like that to you, just because of his annoyance on the subject matter. But sadly a lot of people these days, children, and adults,will throw out all sorts of nasty phrases to those around them,when they are annoyed about something or other, it's like modern day speak, as they hear such stuff all the time, so don't think anything bad about it.

Children need to be told about bad speech behaviour, as they are always going to be coming in contact with lots of people who annoy them in everyday life, so need to be aware of how they speak to people at all times.

@334bu

However, the OP handled it , nothing excuses subsequent behaviour.

I agree but there is a value in understanding what led to the behaviour and if your child needs more direction in understanding social cues and behaviour. There’s no guarantee that what the OP’s ds has took away from this is that he shouldn’t nag at people already doing something and learn to pick his moment (and therefore not get wound up from unmet unrealistic expectations). He’s still a child and it’s our job to teach them these things so they don’t grow up to be dicks.

However, the OP handled it , nothing excuses subsequent behaviour.

I’ve not seen any posters excusing the behaviour. Plenty have been trying to understand it.

Looking at the situation from a few different angles could help the OP consider other strategies to manage a similar situation if it arises again. No one is a perfect parent, it’s all trial and error.

He didn't immediately call names or kick his breakfast during the first quarrel, it gradually built up and you could see he was getting more and more agitated. You say he explodes but that explosion didn't come out of nowhere. You could see the pressure building up and that build-up could probably have been stopped along the way. If he gets worked up so easily then you need strategies to help keep things calm. You can teach him better strategies to stay calm himself over time but you'll need to make the main effort at first.

For example right at the start, if you needed to dry your hair would "I hear you about the game, let's talk about this properly in 15 minutes when my hair is dry" have worked?

A time out is a good idea, but a time out isn't "go to your room and shut up for 15 minutes". A time-out is just a break from any more interactions between the two of you to calm down (especially him) and think things through (both of you), so that you can both be ready to talk calmly and listen to each other. When you son starts getting agitated you need to focus on calm and de-escalation, which is not the same as giving him what he wants, it's about creating a space where he stays rational enough to talk about it and to listen to you. So when he's getting wound up don't add fuel to the fire by commenting on other random stuff that annoys you. Interrupting a time out by telling him off about breakfast was only going to make him more agitated and unreasonable.

The boy needs to pick a suitable time to speak to his mother.

And if he doesn't, his mother could tell him a suitable time. Better for her to be clear and set a time when they can have a proper conversation rather than try to deal when he's over-excited and she's not ready and half-distracted.

Does kick off at his teachers at school and swear at them?

I ignore my kids when I have to get stuff done. I provide stuff for them so that they can have fun, be fed and make time for them. They have to be patient and wait. If they throw a tantrum it makes it longer for everyone. At 11, for non emergency matter, especially one where he is asking for parental contribution, I would expect him to wait. No anger or rudeness otherwise you are even more unlikely to get what you want. He sounds like he has listened and understands the outburst wasn’t on - which is good.

The discussion on this thread is very black and white - clearly the conversation went wrong, and the key thing is to think about how to avoid this in future. We've all been there.

I have found How To Talk So That Teens Will Listen and How To Listen So That Teens Will Talk invaluable.

Interesting discussion. As a lone parent of a stroppy, moody 11 year old (he’s always been like that!), I have learnt some useful tips on de escalation today, and realise that I, too, am guilty of “poking” mine when he’s already wound up.

However, if mine called me a “fucking moron”, there would be ongoing removal of screen privileges in addition to the apology and cleaning up.

I've had similar with my 13yo DS and I've found that (mostly due to screen time) he was getting nowhere near the quality or quantity of sleep he needs. Managing that is a constant battle but with perseverance the results show very quickly.
He's like a different child and the benefits show in every aspect of his life.
Lots for me to think about on this thread too.

@Taoneusa

1. Drying your hair while talking = distracted, divided attention level

1. “Discuss it with your dad then” = dismissal

3.accused me of cutting him off = told you how he felt 4.he was visibly upset and you told him to go away for 15 minutes. 5.you mention his breakfast when breakfast is the last thing on his mind 6.he is really upset and shouting now and your response is to suggest cutting attention level to zero.

1. Then it was all about you. He’d really upset you. = his feelings utterly negated.

He didn’t behave perfectly. You failed to give him the attention he was asking for. Your continuing inattentiveness resulted in his frustration escalating.

Put yourself in his shoes for two minutes, imagine trying to talk to someone who is absent, distracted, and continues to distance themselves from you and your needs, no matter how upset you get.

Maybe you’d find yourself raising your voice and telling the person your attempting to talk with that they are a moron.

I’m sorry you’re really upset. Domestic spats are hard!

Because it's fine for him to be aggressive because he wasn't getting the attention he wanted? He's 11, not 2!

Fucking hell - and then we wonder why there is a problem with male aggression. Always people ready to excuse shitty behaviour

I’d be very careful about teaching my son that women have to give him attention when and how he wants it otherwise it’s understandable if he kicks off. I’ve noticed a lot of threads minimising behaviour from teens as well. It’s fine to get frustrated (we all do) but everyone has to learn that other people don’t always meet their needs immediately. Swearing and kicking things not ok,

I’m sure most teens do this at some stage. I think the thing to remember is he’s at a crappy age and probably isn’t great at self regulating yet and focus on improving that.

Any 11 year old who called me a fucking moron and kicked his breakfast everywhere would be getting nothing from me except a sore arse.

I hope you are not still considering buying him anything!

Yup - apparently you provoked him OP

@DragonDoor

However, the OP handled it , nothing excuses subsequent behaviour.

I’ve not seen any posters excusing the behaviour. Plenty have been trying to understand it.

Looking at the situation from a few different angles could help the OP consider other strategies to manage a similar situation if it arises again. No one is a perfect parent, it’s all trial and error.

No. They're justifying it, not understanding it.

If my son had spoken to me like that there would be some serious consequences.
The over explanation and analysis of some here, explains why boys grow up thinking it is acceptable to be aggressive ..

11 year olds are sophisticated enough that they can pick up on what is causing them to develop a strong emotion- in this case, anger following his perception of being repeatedly dismissed. They aren't sophisticated enough to always know it's not a great time to talk, and they often still need guidance to diffuse strong emotions.

The proactive solution here was to probably give him 30 seconds of complete attention to say "I need to do X but meet me at the kitchen table in 15 minutes and we'll talk about it". That reinforces mutual respect for each others needs.

I agree with everyone.

Bear with me. Mum had about 3 chances to head off the issue with DS or to choose not to escalate it. Those are as @Taoneusa wrote.

However, once there was kicking of food and name-calling, there should be swift, sharp, natural consequences.

Both of those things are true. People blaming poor male adult behaviour on a lack of boundaries OR a lack of attentive parenting are BOTH right. Inattentive, inadequate, careless parenting and abusive, overly harsh punishments both feature in the lives of violent, abusive men. The trick is to parent accordingly.

What this situation needed was full attention, an acknowledgment of what the child was ACTUALLY saying ("why I can't I have something I buy with my money that's actually mine?") help with communication ("OK let's discuss a solution with dad") and if he kicked off then, serious consequences ("we're not even discussing gaming until you apologise, clean up and make amends").

@Taoneusa

1. Drying your hair while talking = distracted, divided attention level

1. “Discuss it with your dad then” = dismissal

3.accused me of cutting him off = told you how he felt 4.he was visibly upset and you told him to go away for 15 minutes. 5.you mention his breakfast when breakfast is the last thing on his mind 6.he is really upset and shouting now and your response is to suggest cutting attention level to zero.

1. Then it was all about you. He’d really upset you. = his feelings utterly negated.

He didn’t behave perfectly. You failed to give him the attention he was asking for. Your continuing inattentiveness resulted in his frustration escalating.

Put yourself in his shoes for two minutes, imagine trying to talk to someone who is absent, distracted, and continues to distance themselves from you and your needs, no matter how upset you get.

Maybe you’d find yourself raising your voice and telling the person your attempting to talk with that they are a moron.

I’m sorry you’re really upset. Domestic spats are hard!

Exactly what I thought.

He's the victim then. Brilliant. Poor little boy, not getting his mummy's attention about a computer game.

What this situation needed was full attention, an acknowledgment of what the child was ACTUALLY saying ("why I can't I have something I buy with my money that's actually mine?") help with communication ("OK let's discuss a solution with dad") and if he kicked off then, serious consequences ("we're not even discussing gaming until you apologise, clean up and make amends").

No. What this situation needed was an understanding from the child that you don't just interrupt people and expect to get their undivided attention. Kids 11 not 3.