Central Park Karen

[CanIPleaseHaveOne]

Did anyone come across this? It is really worth listening to.

podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-real-story-of-the-central-park-karen/id1570872415?i=1000530855326

History is vital but it needs to be accurate, or as accurate as your sources at any particular time are.

This, 1,000.00 times. For everyone.

Sorry just to add a further note based on my own experience re: individual/institutional racism.

I used to work for a US/U.K. company that "prided" itself on its diversity stats.

The executive and their PR machine loved nothing more than to advertise how inclusive the company was.

They just couldn't see the problem.

Yes, they had above representation per % population for women/black/asian/lgb etc.

But the power lay in the overwhelmingly white male executive and senior management layers.

Once you broke the employee data down by seniority the picture was very different.

Like an iceberg the privileged white men were the ones above the water line, supported by the efforts of vast majority of those under it.

I'm always mindful of this in the U.K. when the Police talk about diversity.

Yes it's great to promote racial/sex diversity but until you start to see a proportional number of historically underrepresented groups in positions of power it means bugger all.

In the individual and the collective ideology they promote by virtue of their day to day choices and interactions.

I agree that the personal can build into the collective.
I also think the personal therefore needs challenging.

I guess I want to raise the more structural issues because America in particular is very driven by individuality and personality.

I think the larger structural issues often get obscured by individuals and their specific actions.

@DeRigueurMortis

Sorry just to add a further note based on my own experience re: individual/institutional racism.

I used to work for a US/U.K. company that "prided" itself on its diversity stats.

The executive and their PR machine loved nothing more than to advertise how inclusive the company was.

They just couldn't see the problem.

Yes, they had above representation per % population for women/black/asian/lgb etc.

But the power lay in the overwhelmingly white male executive and senior management layers.

Once you broke the employee data down by seniority the picture was very different.

Like an iceberg the privileged white men were the ones above the water line, supported by the efforts of vast majority of those under it.

I'm always mindful of this in the U.K. when the Police talk about diversity.

Yes it's great to promote racial/sex diversity but until you start to see a proportional number of historically underrepresented groups in positions of power it means bugger all.

THIS

My DHs company - making all the right noises, big public contracts going to POC (hate that term). BUT - all decision makers are white and are male. ALL.

They are the people who have been in top positions for 20 or so years but are now suddenly the ones to "fix" it?

If you look at America I think the Black community there is one of the biggest success stories that country has every had. Across all intellectual diciplines, all industry, all entertainment, and politics Black men and women are at the very top. All achieved without the "helping hand" that other communities had.

Controversial I know.

I guess I want to raise the more structural issues because America in particular is very driven by individuality and personality.

Spice I think they present this but actually it is as much driven by class, money, and network as any good drawing room in the UK.

Good. We can use this logic to completely ignore your protest about what's affecting you in favour of what's affecting us. No energy or time left for 'Karen' after fighting the giant that's racism

Of course this is want you should be doing. I speak as an individual not on behalf of white women collectively, and I don’t expect you to prioritise my fight against sexism over your fight against racism. We can each do both to differing degrees but our individual focus will be on the issue that most greatly affects us, and they will be different.

I think the larger structural issues often get obscured by individuals and their specific actions.

I'm not sure I agree with that if I'm honest.

The actions of Derek Chavin murdering George Floyd certainly cast a spotlight on the US police.

Equally the vast number of videos available that demonstrate behaviour akin to AC's I think have opened up an important wider dialogue.

I'm very uncomfortable with trial by social media but at the same time I'm aware that if these incidents were not being filmed and shared, the awareness of their prevalence and resulting discussions would not be taking place.

By way of an example I saw a video filmed by a black women in Victoria's Secret (??) where a white woman was being aggressive and tried to hit her. On realising she was being filmed she acted as if she were the victim, crying sobbing and writhing on the floor.

Shocking yes, but the worst (of a lot of "worsts") part was when some white female bystanders admonished the black woman filming .

In this case is wasn't just about the individual, it was about the collective response to to a racially motivated incident.

@dottypencilcase if you’ve read all of my posts you’ll know I don’t “overlook” racism. I’m sure you don’t overlook sexism.

I’m not claiming to be a good feminist and I understand why black woman may distance themselves from feminism. I make no complaint about that. I’ve not suggested the word Karen in the racist context shouldn’t be used. I personally object to it’s use in the context I’ve experienced (young white woman calling middle aged white woman for complaining about treatment of elderly white man) I only learned of the original use 2 months ago. The son of the pp who used it will also not have been aware of its original use. That’s where some of this tension arises, we’re not all talking about the same thing.

I suppose I'm thinking more about shooting incidents which seem to continually be explained on an individual level.

One of the things BLM has been able to do successfully is pull up the structural from the specific in recent police shootings. But I do think it gets lost elsewhere.

I'm not convinced about class in the USA but maybe no one in the Midwest has any. Money and status are definitely are a force to be reckoned with.

This appears to be an interesting case of two people attempting to "win" a standoff by weaponising their natural attributes. CC thought that being large and male would do this. AC looked for the advantage that she could pull and decided to invoke the structural racism of whatever police force was likely to attend.

@spicetime

I'm certainly not suggesting the woman in the Emmett Till case was blameless, she lied in court. But my understanding is that she did not at first disclose the event regarding Emmett Till to those who went on to torture and kill him.

When the women's husband was arrested she certainly worked with the defense team to create a false narrative so her husband and cousin (?) were acquitted.

However in the narrative of the the lynching she had little to no part. Another person told her husband about the encounter, when he heard about it he questioned other men to establish why this person was and where they were staying.

It is noted in the records that the woman involved had not mentioned Emmett to her husband fearing trouble.
I would hazard a guess this was more to protect her husband from himself than to protect Emmett.

History is vital but it needs to be accurate, or as accurate as your sources at any particular time are.

As I mentioned I work in the same area that Emmett lived, his real story is an important one.

Carolyn Bryant was not an innocent bystander in the Emmett Till case. It is a matter of record that she herself took a gun from her car following her encounter with Emmett, which scared him and the other kids so much that they left immediately. She also spread her story (lies) to other people, absolutely knowing the consequences for a young black teenager in the Jim Crow south. The fact that she didn't participate in the actual murder doesn't exonerate her. She bore a moral responsibility for Emmett's death by concocting a false story that put the wheels in motion and led directly to his lynching.

Both Carolyn Bryant and Amy Cooper played on the deeply racist trope of the dangerous black man and the fragile white woman. This narrative has a long and tragic history. For Amy Cooper to attempt to justify herself by claiming that she had no other option but to call the police is both absurd and despicable.

Of course, both women are products of the system they grew up in. They are symptoms of a much larger problem, the systemic racism that gives white people considerable privilege, including the privilege of expecting that the police will automatically believe them and disbelieve any person of colour. They feel an entitlement to behave however they like, while knowing that others are not afforded that advantage.

I'm American, so I am very conscious of the issue of racism in the U.S. But it is not solely an American problem. Racism is prevalent in the U.K. as well, and people who pretend otherwise are part of the problem.

Yes I think when she's interviewed AC can't really justify calling the police. I think that what happened is something that she can't admit to I.e. CC was obnoxious and frightening and she wanted to retaliate and so she used the threat of mobilising police brutality. She wouldn't have been able to threaten this if CC had been white.

Interesting how people carry on about 'accuracy' and 'wanting to know the full story' in cases like these, yet ask why the actual victim was filming. If not for the video evidence, we wouldn't even have this particular story and these same people would have denied that it happened because there's no evidence. Circle of denial and moving the goal post.

Also did anybody notice in that podcast - they quote CC 'If you're going to do what you want then I'm going to do what I want and you're not going to like it (gives her dog a treat)

Half way through that podcast it changes to him saying 'I'm going to do something to you'

Also I can't help but find it absolutely mental that they both could have walked away and enjoyed their day but chose to stay in that situation threatening to call the police and getting increasingly irate.

@Makhiaman

Yes the slur ‘Karen’ is sooo oppressive and offensive, but the racism is forgivable as long as you have a really good sob story

Said no-one

@catfunk

Also I can't help but find it absolutely mental that they both could have walked away and enjoyed their day but chose to stay in that situation threatening to call the police and getting increasingly irate.

Really good point. I would never have given this man the time of day in the first place. A quick "well thanks for your opinion, bye!" would have sufficed. Mind you did he physically block her way or anything?

To be honest I would have grabbed my dog and disappeared. I dont like random men stopping me to dictate or give their "advice". I'm certainly not going to stay and entertain them.

Mind you did he physically block her way or anything?

You clearly haven’t seen the video. She walks up to him, he tells her to not come close to him. She has an entire park behind her to walk too but she comes closer to him over and over.
She then moves back away, he says nothing, not moving. She then gets more distressed on the phone repeating ‘there’s an African American man threatening my life’. He still says nothing.

Why are you questioning if he blocked her way? why do you assume he did something wrong?

Yes the slur ‘Karen’ is sooo oppressive and offensive, but the racism is forgivable as long as you have a really good sob story hmm

Could you link to the post where this was said?

@Makhiaman

Mind you did he physically block her way or anything?

You clearly haven’t seen the video. She walks up to him, he tells her to not come close to him. She has an entire park behind her to walk too but she comes closer to him over and over.
She then moves back away, he says nothing, not moving. She then gets more distressed on the phone repeating ‘there’s an African American man threatening my life’. He still says nothing.

Why are you questioning if he blocked her way? why do you assume he did something wrong?

Posters are allowed to ask questions, I asked I didn’t state. So calm down!

Yeah she shouldn’t have wasted her time getting into an argument with him, all this shit could have been avoided. Life is too short. I give busybodies a big swerve.

Mind you did he physically block her way or anything?

No he didn't. His objective was to have her put her dog on the lead, as Central Park requires dog owners to do that in that area. When he asked she should have done it. Amy Cooper didn't do this one simple thing because she is an entitled racist who weaponised her white tears. A year on she is still an entitled racist who is still weaponising her white tears.

Amy Cooper's case (and others) shows why black people need to record their interactions with white people. The danger is real and it comes from racists. I am disgusted, but not surprised at the racist apologists on this thread.

@TooBigForMyBoots

Mind you did he physically block her way or anything?

No he didn't. His objective was to have her put her dog on the lead, as Central Park requires dog owners to do that in that area. When he asked she should have done it. Amy Cooper didn't do this one simple thing because she is an entitled racist who weaponised her white tears. A year on she is still an entitled racist who is still weaponising her white tears.

Amy Cooper's case (and others) shows why black people need to record their interactions with white people. The danger is real and it comes from racists. I am disgusted, but not surprised at the racist apologists on this thread.

Eh? She didn’t put her dog on the lead because she’s racist?? Nope she might well be as racist as fuck but if that guy had stopped me to dictate or lecture me I wouldn’t have done as he demanded either. I would have treated him like I treat all busybodies (and why are so many of them men 🤔) - nod smile and swerve.

It wasn’t having a dog off the lead that led to all the fury about this woman, it was what she was threatening and what she said to the Police. Having a dog off lead doesn’t make you a racist.

Missy you are being incredibly obtuse. Like others your only aim seems to be to distract from the actual issue - racism and white privilege being used as a weapon. What are your thoughts on that and on Amy Coopers behaviour?

She didn't put her dog on a lead because she's an entitled racist. I get it @MissyB1, you would not have put your dog on a lead (despite the fact that it was required as it is a ground nesting bird sanctuary) because you are simply "entitled".🤷‍♀️

Yeah she shouldn’t have wasted her time getting into an argument with him, all this shit could have been avoided. Life is too short. I give busybodies a big swerve.

Nothing on what she did then? I'm sure you'd have had more to say had he been the one coming closer or if he blocked her way, like you "asked". A pp answered you and from the answer, you get that "He's a busybody".

Right. And she's a ??