Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Central Park Karen

310 replies

CanIPleaseHaveOne · 23/08/2021 14:42

Did anyone come across this? It is really worth listening to.

podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-real-story-of-the-central-park-karen/id1570872415?i=1000530855326

OP posts:
HereForThis · 23/08/2021 21:49

@endofthelinefinally

Whatever anyone thinks of the people involved in that altercation, the slur "karen" is such a horrible thing to call anybody. It is used far too often by people who actually have no idea what it really means.
Oh really? "Whatever anyone thinks of it..." the Karen sluuur is so much worse? It's so horrible you can't even bring yourself to say something about the "minor racism".
bargelights · 23/08/2021 21:51

Why are some people so quick to assign blame to Christian Cooper while defending Amy Cooper’s actions?

Rhetorical question. Sadly, I know the answer.

catfunk · 23/08/2021 21:54

@Klmnope

I’d phone the police as well if some creep was following me around and filming me.
How was he a creep?
HereForThis · 23/08/2021 21:55

@Enough4me

I won't listen as you used a nice regular name as a slur.
To hell with racism. Won't somebody think of the name??! 🙄
Hellotoallmyfans · 23/08/2021 22:00

Oh so he's a creep now. Nice. Any other disparaging words you want to throw at a black man

He is a creep. Stalking people walking their dogs in a park, filming and going out of your way to threaten them is absolutely creepy behaviour. Are we not allowed to say he was exhibiting creepy behaviour bc he's black?

I think Amy Cooper is a racist and seems like a very annoying woman. I also think the guy was being a bit weird in a public park. It's really not normal behaviour to do that. He seemed to be going out of his way to cause trouble with people.

It is worse to be racist yes, but that doesn't take away the fact he was acting like a creep. We can say both things. He wasn't innocent in this incident but it seems she overreacted.

It seems her mistake was using the words "African American". If she'd just said "a man" none of this would've happened to her and the guy would probably have received a warning to not follow people around in the park - she fucked up 🤷‍♀️ (Ironically HE is a massive Karen, taking it upon himself to follow people around a public park, vigilante style, complaining that people are dog walking in the wrong place!) surely that's the definition of a Karen? Being a busybody?

HereForThis · 23/08/2021 22:02

@OverweightPidgeon

I have listened to it - he is a black man who acts weirdly towards dog walkers. She is a white racist woman who was probably justified in being scared .
Such a fairly-distributed judgement. So, you've seen him with other dog walkers then? He's the weird black man who harasses dog walkers and she's the innocent racist white woman who was scared this time. Aren't they always? Typical.
bargelights · 23/08/2021 22:12

Oh, FFS. He isn’t a “creep” stalking defenseless white women. He’s a dedicated birdwatcher who rightly told the racist woman that she needed to put her dog on a lead. He was right, she was wrong. But I’m not surprised by the character assassination Amy Cooper is engaging in. It’s a common tactic for racists.

spicetime · 23/08/2021 22:12

I think the biggest problem is the assumption that the police can be weaponized, that calling them is the wrong thing to do.

Something has gone very wrong in a society when an altercation between two people either can't be settled neutrally by the police or there is the assumption by one or both of the parties that it won't be.

Amy shouldn't have been walking her dog off lead, Christian shouldn't be using dog treats to lure other people's dogs or filming them.

Both of them should have been comfortable to involve the police. The fact that calling the police is seen as a racist act is indicative of significant structural problems.

HereForThis · 23/08/2021 22:15

@Hivis

Stop acting precious over the use of “Karen” and FOCUS ON RACISM!

It’s human nature to focus on the issues that affect our day to day life. Racism is not an issue that directly affects me. Sexism is, being labelled a Karen (in the evolved use of it - middle aged woman of any race expressing displeasure) affects me. Depression and cancer affect me. These are what I focus on. I don’t not focus on racism because I don’t care, I do. Same with disability rights. But I can only focus and fight on so many fronts at once and like most people, they will be the issues that are part of our lived experience.

Good. We can use this logic to completely ignore your protest about what's affecting you in favour of what's affecting us. No energy or time left for 'Karen' after fighting the giant that's racism.
MolyHolyGuacamole · 23/08/2021 22:20

I also think the guy was being a bit weird in a public park. It's really not normal behaviour to do that. He seemed to be going out of his way to cause trouble with people.

Your privilege is reeking. It may not be normal to you, but I totally understand why a black man would want to record a white woman losing her shit on him (for asking her to follow the rules of the area she was in regarding her dog), given how things escalate when entitled white people are involved in altercations with black people.

Use google to peruse the countless similar videos where black people are abused because they aren't believed to be part of the same university, or apartment complex, or neighbourhood.

Then google the news stories of people shot dead in similar scenarios. Ahmaud Arbery for not looking like he belonged in a neighbourhood. Botham Jean for being in HIS OWN apartment but who was automatically assumed to be an intruder by someone who got the wrong apartment.

And he didn't go out of his way, he was there in that area of the park bird watching. And it didn't involve 'people', in involved one person. But continue to go out of your way to be a racist apologist.

Makhiaman · 23/08/2021 22:22

Oh yes, if I was a scared woman alone in the woods I’d definitely a) refuse to leash my dog as requested as per the rules b) start strangling my dog while I lose my shit c)calculate my response to the police by ensuring they knew it was a BLACK man threatening my life. D) continue to get closer and attempt to wind up the scary black man.

Im not buying that she was scared for one minute, she felt powerful over him because she’s white and he’s not. She’s a coward and a racist and was hoping a racist police system would do her dirty work for her.

Luckily the responding police didn’t act as George Floyds murderers did that same day or I would hope she’d be charged with conspiracy to murder too.

MolyHolyGuacamole · 23/08/2021 22:23

She is a white racist woman who was probably justified in being scared

She wasn't judged for being scared, she was judged for being racist in her call for the police, being scared has nothing to do with it. Unless you think her racism is justified due to being scared, I don't understand why you even mention it.

HereForThis · 23/08/2021 22:33

The disproportionate levels of blame placed distinctly on woman

SMDH.

Someone said as soon as people use Karen, she shuts down because it shows they're stupid and blah blah...

Well as soon as people follow the typical racist handbook, there no "disproportionate level of blame" because it shows they're stupid and yada yada...

lborgia · 23/08/2021 22:48

@spicetime - that's a very insightful post, didn't realise before but now it's clear as day. Thank you!

AC is vile, and scared. I think she was busy in her own little entitled bubble not following the rules, and when she got caught out, it was in a place where she was alone with a stranger.

How it plays out is absolutely because of her privilege and racism.

The title of the podcast is an attempt at self-deprecation, and by calling herself names she hopes to soften her image.

Having said all of that, I'm startled to see "Karen" being described as "just a silly name". Many of the phrases being used to minimise it are those used to dismiss the harm done by other racist and sexist terms.

Just because you aren't impacted by it, just because you don't know what it means, just because you think it should be used as a convenient way to describe a certain group of women, didn't make it true.

I can sympathise with the absolute rage at racism being dismissed, but I cannot say I've experienced it. I have experienced being attacked, verbally and physically, as well as ignored and dismissed, because I'm a woman, and because of my age. I know it's not the same as being black and a woman, but it still happens.

You have every right to be as angry as you are about your experiences, personally, and collectively. There is no point in trying to put everyone's experiences and pain on a scale, they're different.

I hope that if you'd seen me after I was raped, you would've offered me a hand. But maybe you would've seen a white woman distressed because of the whole white purity trope?

My being white might be a problem, being female should not be.

I am OK with finding Karen pejorative, and wishing it wasn't used. I still think what AC did was appalling and she got what she deserved. I'm not listening to the podcast because I don't think she deserves any more airplay.

Backstreetsbackalrightdadada · 23/08/2021 22:48

She was breaking the law and he was acting perfectly normally!! And then she committed a hate crime by alleging criminal acts by him - he could’ve ended up in so much trouble by her racist lies! And yet people jam sexism into these chats. What’d you think of emmet till’s accusers then? Don’t go crying to get defensive about your bigotry, classic move Hmm

HereForThis · 23/08/2021 22:52

@Klmnope

I’d phone the police as well if some creep was following me around and filming me.
Sure. That's what happened. Cool story, bro.

Good thing for you, Amy Cooper thought the same thing. That's why we're discussing her today because a 'big bad black creepy man was just following her around and filming her'.

Eorks · 23/08/2021 22:57

@Hellotoallmyfans

Oh so he's a creep now. Nice. Any other disparaging words you want to throw at a black man

He is a creep. Stalking people walking their dogs in a park, filming and going out of your way to threaten them is absolutely creepy behaviour. Are we not allowed to say he was exhibiting creepy behaviour bc he's black?

I think Amy Cooper is a racist and seems like a very annoying woman. I also think the guy was being a bit weird in a public park. It's really not normal behaviour to do that. He seemed to be going out of his way to cause trouble with people.

It is worse to be racist yes, but that doesn't take away the fact he was acting like a creep. We can say both things. He wasn't innocent in this incident but it seems she overreacted.

It seems her mistake was using the words "African American". If she'd just said "a man" none of this would've happened to her and the guy would probably have received a warning to not follow people around in the park - she fucked up 🤷‍♀️ (Ironically HE is a massive Karen, taking it upon himself to follow people around a public park, vigilante style, complaining that people are dog walking in the wrong place!) surely that's the definition of a Karen? Being a busybody?

No, a Karen is a white woman weaponising her skin colour to put people in their place.
spicetime · 23/08/2021 22:57

I don't know what SMDH means.

I do know that woman are treated very differently to men.

As I said it was notable that Breonna Taylor got much less attention particularly at first than the men killed at the same time.

It is also notable that the case of Emmett Till is mostly remembered for the actions of a woman.
Even though the woman in question didn't cause his death.

Amy appears to have internalized the belief that the police force is racist.
It is highly concerning that this isn't an unfounded belief.

I don't doubt she has racist beliefs, I actually think they permeate American society at most levels.

Racist men kill black people, ironically they seem to get much less publicity for this.

HereForThis · 23/08/2021 23:01

The fact that calling the police is seen as a racist act is indicative of significant structural problems.

The fact that calling the police to tell them a black man was threatening her is seen as a racist...

There, I fixed it for you. No more selective amnesia about why she's being called a racist POS.

Eorks · 23/08/2021 23:03

@Makhiaman

Oh yes, if I was a scared woman alone in the woods I’d definitely a) refuse to leash my dog as requested as per the rules b) start strangling my dog while I lose my shit c)calculate my response to the police by ensuring they knew it was a BLACK man threatening my life. D) continue to get closer and attempt to wind up the scary black man.

Im not buying that she was scared for one minute, she felt powerful over him because she’s white and he’s not. She’s a coward and a racist and was hoping a racist police system would do her dirty work for her.

Luckily the responding police didn’t act as George Floyds murderers did that same day or I would hope she’d be charged with conspiracy to murder too.

Every word of this
spicetime · 23/08/2021 23:04

I took it as read that the issue with calling the police was that one of the party involved was black.

Otherwise there wouldn't be seen as a racist act.

Eorks · 23/08/2021 23:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Eorks · 23/08/2021 23:07

@spicetime

I took it as read that the issue with calling the police was that one of the party involved was black.

Otherwise there wouldn't be seen as a racist act.

Yeah, and the fact she specifically said she was going to tell the police an 'AfRICan aMerICAn' man was involved as a threat
HereForThis · 23/08/2021 23:07

@spicetime

I think the biggest problem is the assumption that the police can be weaponized, that calling them is the wrong thing to do.

Something has gone very wrong in a society when an altercation between two people either can't be settled neutrally by the police or there is the assumption by one or both of the parties that it won't be.

Amy shouldn't have been walking her dog off lead, Christian shouldn't be using dog treats to lure other people's dogs or filming them.

Both of them should have been comfortable to involve the police. The fact that calling the police is seen as a racist act is indicative of significant structural problems.

This is the whole post. You were talking about Amy Cooper.

She called the police with the typical racist ammo, hoping for the best worst.

spicetime · 23/08/2021 23:07

Yes, we appear to be violently agreeing on this.