Is there anywhere where women don't get pestered and harassed by men?

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

I feel like in every single environment, public space, workplace etc theres men standing in the wings waiting to harass, peste and intimidate women. I'm nearly 40 and I remember dealing with this shit as a teenager and expecting it to get better - but it hasn't.

We know what it's like for women being harassed on the street and where that leads to - 2 out of 3 girls aged 14 to 21 have experienced harassment but I'm actually surprised it's not higher (it probably is in real life I don't know a single woman who's never experienced harassment) source: https://plan-uk.org/act-for-girls/street-harassment

My niece, who is 18, works at a fast food restaurant and was telling me yesterday that she has to deal with creeps on every single shift. Not just male colleagues invading her personal space, touching her back etc - but she has had to get her manager on more than one occasion to ask a drive thru customer to leave the premises because he won't drive away until she gave him her phone number. She's handed her notice in because the harassment has got so bad and is looking to do factory work where she doesn't have to deal with the public.

I am 20 years older than her and deal with it too even now. I have a game on my phone that I play thats a community based game - eg you can interact with others, swap items, go into each others 'worlds' etc. It's linked to my Facebook so a tiny version of my profile picture comes up next to my username, so people can see I'm female. I get about 15 messages from men a day ranging from explicit, which I report, to "hi lovely can we chat". I just want to play the fucking game without having to sift through creepy messages.

Where the fuck do men get off behaving like this? Who told them it was ok? The above are just 2 examples but it seems to be everywhere.

I feel like the onus is on all women to change too - change jobs, change our profile pictures, don't walk down certain streets, don't walk alone at night etc. No one ever talks about the onus being on all men

And yes NAMALT, but far too many are and it seems to be normalised, and maybe the "men who arent like that" should do their bit to help women and start calling out the men who are?

Worse country was Mexico and Cuba it was horrendous

Least in Thailand

I’m glad to be invisible now nearly 50 and from 30 + I didn’t get quite the same levels of harassment but was certainly daily

I feel for young women now it’s often so aggressive

When I was married [long time ago now] I would get propositioned by married/engaged men at parties, works do's, in the pub etc. I was sick of it and their attitudes, when tackled their reply would be that their partner/wife wouldn't know so it wouldn't hurt them. One had a wife who was pregnant. Another was my husband's best friend at work!

After my divorce I wasn't interested in another relationship and I had enough to do bringing up my boys and working etc. I had a friend who went to a gay women's club and used to go there with her. It was wonderful not to have men prowling, leering etc. I went with her for years and had a whale of a time, lots of laughs, warm and independent females who I also befriended and listened to their successes and woes. It was great.

However I was approached by a few women, but they were ok when I put them right. Nothing was sleazy and gropey though or any vile language. It gave me breathing space and great nights out...and friends. Just my experience. Go to a Pride event, they're good.

I can really only speak from my own experience, I use to get harassed daily When I was younger and drew q slim, when I got fat and had kids it stopped instantly, I don’t get beeped at, cat called, whistled at, stared at, strange men don’t speak to me. I live my life pretty much invisible now

@Slipperfairy

I wonder how the woman felt, when the man with her told you you look lovely?

I don’t think she was his wife - she was another volunteer. She agreed and said she liked my jumpsuit.

My attitude is that if it’s not predatory or intimidating and is meant in a complimentary way, I take it as a compliment. I’m the first to call things out if they’re not acceptable, but life’s too short to be looking for trouble.

(By looking for trouble I mean looking to take offence where none was intended.)

@Susannahmoody

It's happens way more in the UK than in other places.

Really?

I'm fat and fifty and I'm invisible to men now thank goodness

I personally don't know any woman who hasn't ever in some way shape or form been harassed by a man. Since putting on weight and having kids I don't notice it as much though still happens occasionally. I have very large breasts always have and it seems to attract all the creeps as a young teen early 20s I was harassed daily by men, from to smarmy comments to outright groping. It's awful and it makes me really worry for my young daughters.

I agree @bopeeple it can be complimentary and isn't necessarily intimidating or intended so.

But at times in my life, following abuse, rape etc I have longed for anonymity, invisibility. At these times, due to my trauma, I have often been sent in to a spiral from perhaps well intended comments such as cheer up love, smile etc.

I would prefer a society which didn't value and accept such conduct so readily. Because there is also the flip side. If men can comment on your physical attractiveness, they feel emboldened to comment when you actively avoid being attractive. I have gone to extreme lengths to be unappealing, including shaving my head etc, but society still feels entitled to vocally judge strangers.

It can be very disheartening.

I'm size 10 and it very rarely happens to me. Not sure what it is that triggers the creeps but it doesn't seem to be weight related.

Same here. It was a very regular occurrence in my 20s but very rare now I’m in my 30s. This thread is really making me wonder what the difference is in why some women continue to experience it after their teens/20s, not sure it’s just down to age, weight or attractiveness.

I’m now wondering whether it’s my behaviour that has changed though rather than men’s behaviour towards me. I don’t really go anywhere that I wouldn’t consider a safe space now. I very rarely go out in the evening and if I do it’s with DH, I don’t really go to places where people are drinking, if I’m not with DH I tend to be doing something child focused or at least have a child with me, or I’m at work (non-public facing role)

I experienced harassment from my early teens to my mid thirties. Thankfully, getting older and greyer seems to have put paid to this. Also, I live in Germany now, and I really have not ever seen cat calling etc to the extent that it happens in the UK.

I'm fairly invisible now I'm over 50. It's nice.

@Megasausagehead

I for one have never heard another man being told he has a lovely smile, or that he should smile more, by other men.

That sense of entitlement that some men have, to speak out loud their assessment of a woman's beauty, or other physical attributes is denigrating, even if intention is kind. It puts women in some sort of tick box competition to meet male expectations.

I bet my left arm they don't say it to other men, but a lowly woman should be grateful for random approval.

I don't think so. It isn't a compliment, it's an invasion of a right to privacy.

@Megasausagehead has got it right on the button!

@korawick12345

It is interesting though how some women are saying it happens to them everyday sometimes multiple times a day and other women are saying it rarely if ever happens

Why do you think that is?

@korawick12345 depends where you live. If there's a culture of harassment on the streets it will embolden more men and boys to join in. Other places it is perhaps more frowned upon. That would explain it.

@Grellbunt - perhaps, but a pp referred to it as being constant in London including being followed which is not my experience at all of being in London (I totally accept that London is massive and has massive variation in areas). It does seem that some women seem to have it near constantly no matter where they are and others very rarely.

There’s a huge difference between being told you have a nice smile and being told to smile more/cheer up. One is a compliment, the other is an insult.

Why don't men get "compliments" about their appearance?

It's lesser now I'm not a teenager (when it was at its peak - prob aged 11-17) but has been bad through my 2 pregnancies.
I'm actually glad I don't have daughters and have to watch them go through this

I found the attention when I was pregnant really disturbing

Really made me feel uncomfortable and vulnerable (I was in my own too so feeling more vulnerable anyway)

I can’t understand finding your partner sexually attractive when pregnant but a women you don’t know I just find it odd

I can understand ....

@ChristmasShearwater

I don't recognise the grim picture you're painting, OP, and I'd wager it's not the experience of the majority of woman.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen ...

This ^

I'm stagger that (on P4) to are even trying to claim that people who are not harassed on a daily basis everywhere they go actually are but don't recognise it What an outrageously offensive statement.

Then why are you having a go at people who do not recognise the situation you describe at all, when you literally opened your thread by saying Is there anywhere where women don't get pestered and harassed by men? ?

Harassment is awful, but it certainly isn't a daily occurrence for women I know (of all ages and across the UK)

You could try moving to the sticks. When you live somewhere that everyone knows each other and arseholish behaviour will be gossiped about forever then men suddenly stop behaving like this.

Perhaps not true everywhere but it's been my experience; much worse in cities especially foriegn cities where you can be anonymously harassed.

A lot of women want to believe it could never happen to them. Makes them feel safer, feel more powerful, feel they're different from the women it happens to. Truth is, it's probably happened to them they've just been conditioned to accept it in a misogynistic, patriarchal society

Oh fuck off. I've not been conditioned at all. I've been surrounded by lovely men my whole life - dad, brothers, husband, friends, PiLs, bosses. I've met some arses too but I've also come across many an absolutely vile woman.

I'm a feminist but I don't think all - or even most - men are bastards. I fear the violence that men can do to women, especially as I have a young daughter.

I've not experienced this behaviour from men. I must be a right minger pmsl.

@ChristmasShearwater

I don't recognise the grim picture you're painting, OP, and I'd wager it's not the experience of the majority of woman.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen ...

@ChristmasShearwater

This, and same.