Is there anywhere where women don't get pestered and harassed by men?

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

I feel like in every single environment, public space, workplace etc theres men standing in the wings waiting to harass, peste and intimidate women. I'm nearly 40 and I remember dealing with this shit as a teenager and expecting it to get better - but it hasn't.

We know what it's like for women being harassed on the street and where that leads to - 2 out of 3 girls aged 14 to 21 have experienced harassment but I'm actually surprised it's not higher (it probably is in real life I don't know a single woman who's never experienced harassment) source: https://plan-uk.org/act-for-girls/street-harassment

My niece, who is 18, works at a fast food restaurant and was telling me yesterday that she has to deal with creeps on every single shift. Not just male colleagues invading her personal space, touching her back etc - but she has had to get her manager on more than one occasion to ask a drive thru customer to leave the premises because he won't drive away until she gave him her phone number. She's handed her notice in because the harassment has got so bad and is looking to do factory work where she doesn't have to deal with the public.

I am 20 years older than her and deal with it too even now. I have a game on my phone that I play thats a community based game - eg you can interact with others, swap items, go into each others 'worlds' etc. It's linked to my Facebook so a tiny version of my profile picture comes up next to my username, so people can see I'm female. I get about 15 messages from men a day ranging from explicit, which I report, to "hi lovely can we chat". I just want to play the fucking game without having to sift through creepy messages.

Where the fuck do men get off behaving like this? Who told them it was ok? The above are just 2 examples but it seems to be everywhere.

I feel like the onus is on all women to change too - change jobs, change our profile pictures, don't walk down certain streets, don't walk alone at night etc. No one ever talks about the onus being on all men

And yes NAMALT, but far too many are and it seems to be normalised, and maybe the "men who arent like that" should do their bit to help women and start calling out the men who are?

This might sound strange, but as a biker I don't know any women who've been harassed at bike rallies or rock nights. I had one dodgy experience where a guy put his hand down my top...but he wasn't a biker, he was a local who'd come over for a look....and I punched him in the face. The lads came running over to help if I needed it, and his friends took him away.
As for everywhere else, that's a different story. I remember working in a shop aged 15 on, and old men running their finger up my leg while I was on a ladder, and a milkman reaching around and grabbing my breast while I stocked the fridge. He got a punch to the jaw too and wasn't allowed back in. In latter years I get abuse for daring to be fat, but usually can handle that too.

@BoPeeple

I don’t think it’s objectifying at all. It’s a compliment and NOT the same as some of the genuinely degrading experiences on here.

Yes, it does depend on how it’s done, but in my experience it is usually quite charming and polite. I say ‘thank you’ and move on.

It may be a compliment to the 'giver' but to the receiver it's an unwanted and uncalled for comment. It can be awkward and embarrassing, and not what women want or need when they're walking to work. What does the giver even gain from saying something like that? Isn't it best they just STFU? Do you think wolf whistling is just a compliment as well? If a woman is with her kids is it ok to do this?

@magicstar1do you know what, actually, reading your post has made me think… Download music festival - full of hairy arsed hikers and rockers and I haven’t been harassed or ever witnessed any harassment of women by men, in the 4 or 5 times I’ve been.

I for one have never heard another man being told he has a lovely smile, or that he should smile more, by other men.

That sense of entitlement that some men have, to speak out loud their assessment of a woman's beauty, or other physical attributes is denigrating, even if intention is kind. It puts women in some sort of tick box competition to meet male expectations.

I bet my left arm they don't say it to other men, but a lowly woman should be grateful for random approval.

I don't think so. It isn't a compliment, it's an invasion of a right to privacy.

*bikers not hikers

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@korawick12345 i have no idea what you're going on about. What have I supposedly 'corrected myself' about? I clarified a point that YOU misunderstood. Again, that was pretty obvious and it's a really pathetic attempt to wrongfoot me. And I haven't dismissed anyone's experiences.

You say you don't k ow why I started this thread but why are you even posting?! My question was about spaces that are harassment free and you're on a rampage to talk about how many women allegedly experience no harassment. Why? What's your agenda? Are you a man or woman? Why are you so insistent on changing the narrative from women who experience sexual harassment to calling posters misogynists who simply said many women don't recognise harassment?[/quote]
I suggest you read the thread because you are now just completely making stuff up.

I'm in my 40s, so pretty invisible these days. I've also been lucky when out running, that men have said nothing to me. And I was worried that would happen- especially some of the places I run in. But there are often cyclists/ dog walkers/ other runners about. Most iffy blokes round here are dealing, so don't really want to call attention to themselves.

However. For my 6th form girls, it's pretty much like it was for me in my youth. Non stop and draining.

It isn't only sexual harassment. What about how, if you're remotely friendly to a man, say in a queue or on a bus, they think they are "in"??

Or, for the older and fatter among us, it's the being talked over, ignored at the bar, jostled aside on the pavement, manspreading, the sexist jokes, the head swivel after a woman half their age.

Dd is 10. She is, obviously, the most beautiful girl ever. she is all arms and legs, has long, curly hair and little breast buds. I have recently noticed that when I'm out with her, I'm much, much more aware of the men around because she is suddenly going to edge onto their radar. She's still a little girl, but she's a tall little girl about to enter puberty and it makes me very protective. Interestingly, dh is completely oblivious.

@TheMoth

Dd is 10. She is, obviously, the most beautiful girl ever. she is all arms and legs, has long, curly hair and little breast buds. I have recently noticed that when I'm out with her, I'm much, much more aware of the men around because she is suddenly going to edge onto their radar. She's still a little girl, but she's a tall little girl about to enter puberty and it makes me very protective. Interestingly, dh is completely oblivious.

Absolutely terrifying isn't it?

@korawick12345 what have I made up?

@PumpkinKlNG

I’m in my 30s and never get harassed by men, getting fat works!

So does getting hair cut very short. Not a beep or a catcall in 15 years.

My 12 year old has been leered and had obscenities said to her by strange men. She is very beautiful (not boasting she objectively is) but is very obviously still a child. It infuriates her it’s hard to advise her what to do about it. I reported one instance to the police but never even got a response.

Quite fortunate hand guns are illegal or in my peri menopausal rage I might realistically shoot some of them.

megasausagehead yes, because at her age, I just wasn't aware. And it's not that I see peadophiles on every corner, because I don't think men who look at girls think they are paedophiles, but at first glance, she's a leggy, long haired teen. And of course, 16 is fair game.

I have never really been harassed but I have had a very privileged/sheltered life and have also pretty much always had a boyfriend or husband around since I was 18…. sad, but would-be harassers are more respectful of other men than of women. My negative experience has pretty much entirely been through career limitation since I had kids. My sister lives in a very different world to be and has experienced harassment non-stop from the age of 15 and it has broken her.

@bjjgirl

I was stopped by a lady yesterday who politely told me my dress was pretty and I looked beautiful, I did not feel harassed because she said it in a non threatening manner and was genuinely complimentary.

If a man complimented me in this way I do not think I would feel harassed

^ This.

The experiences I’m talking about are totally non-threatening and non-sexual - sometimes women do it to me too. It’s just nice.

IMO it’s not harassment.

@BoPeeple I'll ask again - is wolf whistling a compliment? And is it ok to tell a woman she's beautiful if her kids are with her? Or her husband?

As an example, when I went for my second vaccine a couple of weeks ago, the man directing me was standing with another woman. He politely told me which way to go and then said, “You look lovely, by the way.”

Another example: I arrived at the local rubbish tip and stopped my car next to the man directing the traffic. I wound my window down and asked which bay I should use. He pointed one out and then said “Wow, you have a lovely smile.”

Another example: An Amazon delivery driver stopped and asked me directions. I told him and he said, “Thank you. And you’re beautiful!”

These comments made me feel happy. Wouldn’t it have been a little sad if I’d viewed them all as harassment?

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@BoPeeple I'll ask again - is wolf whistling a compliment? And is it ok to tell a woman she's beautiful if her kids are with her? Or her husband?[/quote]
No, I think wolf whistling is not nice, because the intention (and result) is to make you feel embarrassed or awkward.
But I think the second two are fine if it is done respectfully.

My own husband doesn't compliment my clothes. If a man i didn't know did it, it'd be weird. Why is he doing it? Women do it as a kind of bonding thing, whether they mean it or not. I do it. "Ooh, that's a nice dress". It might be, or I think it looks nice on you, or I want you to feel good about yourself.

If a man I worked with for years, who knew my style, did it, I would take it as a compliment. Because I know him and know he has no agenda.

Interestingly, the definition of sexual harassment on the Citizens Advice website is this:

“Sexual harassment is unwanted behaviour of a sexual nature which:

• violates your dignity
• makes you feel intimidated, degraded or humiliated
• creates a hostile or offensive environment”

@BoPeeple

As an example, when I went for my second vaccine a couple of weeks ago, the man directing me was standing with another woman. He politely told me which way to go and then said, “You look lovely, by the way.”

Another example: I arrived at the local rubbish tip and stopped my car next to the man directing the traffic. I wound my window down and asked which bay I should use. He pointed one out and then said “Wow, you have a lovely smile.”

Another example: An Amazon delivery driver stopped and asked me directions. I told him and he said, “Thank you. And you’re beautiful!”

These comments made me feel happy. Wouldn’t it have been a little sad if I’d viewed them all as harassment?

I am very jealous. It seems these things were said to make you feel good rather than make you feel uncomfortable.

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@BoPeeple I'll ask again - is wolf whistling a compliment? And is it ok to tell a woman she's beautiful if her kids are with her? Or her husband?[/quote]
Well based on the definition, its up to the induvidual to define what they think is harrassment. I think this is probably why some dont experience it often, and other experience it daily. Depends on how you define it. Its not up to someone else to define your interactions or experiences.

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

Exactly.

I wonder how the woman felt, when the man with her told you you look lovely?