Mumsnetters who support trans women, please comment here

[LiberaceTrumpet]

Mumsnetters who are gender critical - please please do not comment here, this is not a discussion thread, I just want to see if there are other people here who share my views.

I believe feminism is nothing if not intersectional.

I feel really alone on mumsnet. Every time I come on and want to get advice about something or just waste five minutes there's always another trans thread. Maybe this website is not the place for me?

I support all trans people. I want them to live their lives free of discrimination, in peace, safety and happiness.

I also want the same for women.

It is a fact that people are either male or female, determined at birth and immutable.

I'm not gender critical, in the sense I don't believe it is just a social construct. I think biology & culture have worked hand in hand to create differing social norms for the two sexes.

I'm not a feminist.

I was happily working with and for transpeople before a significant slice of MNers were born. In all my years I've had ONE bad experience with a trans person. Countless other experiences were on the OK-Great scale.

I'm more than happy to support transpeople. I believe they should have equal opportunities to everybody else and be as free from criminal acts such as harassment and abuse as anybody else.

But I won't support their declared needs riding roughshod over other people's needs and being told to shut up if I want to discuss how to create a solution without unintended consequences and human shaped collateral damage. I wouldn't do that for any other group at the expense of another group either.

I also don't believe saying "I'm a woman/man" turns a man/woman into the opposite sex. In exactly the same way that I don't believe the priest's ritual/words turns wine into the blood of Christ. And I'll die on the hill of not being arm twisted into saying I do in both cases.

Pretty glad I was born now and not in the middle ages. I'm stubborn enough about not being forced to repeat a lie I don't believe in that I'd have been a candidate for getting chucked on the heretic bonfire.

@GrammarTeacher
Dictionary definitions of
Woman: Adult human female
Female: of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.

There, solved it for you.
The definition of woman (and hence female) is scientific - by sex.
Trans women are not women, by science.
And before anybody gets into the argument of ‘are infertile women not women blah2’ - their bodies are designed to be able to bear children although something has gone wrong so yes, they are female.

Nobody is saying that trans women can’t dress as they choose etc but the fact remains that biologically they are not women.

@Soubriquet

I 100% support trans women

I believe they have the right to be safe and respected. I also believe they have the right to be validated

However, I also believe women should have the right to have female only prisons, bathrooms, hostels and hospital wards

Women are women
Trans women are trans women.

That is as simple as that

Me too

Can I ask which part of these statements you don’t agree with op?

Why did you ask in the thread title for people “who support transwomen”? Why not ask for “people who believe it is possible to change sex”, or “people who believe there is no difference between women and transwomen”, or whatever other statement would accurately reflect your own beliefs?

Please don’t imply those with gender critical beliefs do not support transwomen.

but the constant painting of transpeople as dangerous predators, perverts and delusional people

It’s not about trans people, it’s about men. and whether you or they believe it to be to trans women are men.

Support transwomen to do what?

I agree with shirley

If it's parenting advice you're after post in a relevant topic -
education, health, relationships for example.

Quite easy to avoid people who don't believe TWAW if you choose to. Question is, why aren't you choosing to 🤔

@Ijustreallywantacat

I'm with you OP. I an disheartened by the many untruths and fearmongering which is prevelant on here. Its one thing to be gender critical, which in some ways I can get behind, but the constant painting of transpeople as dangerous predators, perverts and delusional people makes me sad. I've hidden the FWR forum but it's getting more and more difficult to escape it.

I have argued so often about safeguarding, always (so far as I can remember) with the caveat that I am not saying that all trans people are sexual predators, but if we do X/ y/ z we will remove safeguards that currently keep the perverts out.

I have had trans people stay overnight in my house. I have a relative who is trans. I am not afraid of the vast majority of trans people. But I am worried about the opportunities some of the concessions that are demanded will give to sexual predators who may not be genuinely trans, and I am deeply concerned about the future of women's sports.

But hey, 'untruths and fearmongering'. Obviously.

I support trans women and men. No one should ever come to harm, mentally or physically, for living their lives.

However, biological sex cannot be changed. And I also support women’s rights to having single sex spaces and women’s sports for women only.

@ShirleyPhallus

I support trans women

I also believe that sex cannot be changed and that the current trans movement is damaging to feminism

It’s possible to be both

My sentiments exactly!

@ShirleyPhallus

I support trans women

I also believe that sex cannot be changed and that the current trans movement is damaging to feminism

It’s possible to be both

Exactly this. They're not mutually exclusive.

To me this just demonstrates the whole agree with everything or you are a hateful transphobic bigot.

I support trans people I’m not against them and I wouldn’t label myself gender critical.
However I agree with refuges , sports , prisons and changing /toilet facilities being separated by sex. It doesn’t mean I hate trans people or won’t support them. I’m just also looking at things in regards to how it impacts me and fellow women.

[quote LiberaceTrumpet]**@somethinghastogive46* and @SionnachRua* thank you. It's good to know I'm not alone. I don't really know what to do - it feels wrong to keep coming here sometimes and contributing to mumsnet's profits through seeing their ads. To me it feels like a really different place than it used to be because of all this. Perhaps I should leave, but then that gives the impression that all "British mums" feel this way, when I suspect (hope) it's just a vocal minority.

I wish someone would set up a British parenting forum that takes a trans-inclusive stance, to be honest. The way that people here spend hours coming up with theories and conspiracies and banding together in them doesn't sit right with me. It reminds me of the way incels talk online, weirdly.[/quote]
Do you mean you would prefer to use a forum that censors discussion and bans women who disagree with you? As that is the only way to achieve a forum that expresses only one monolithic point of view.
Wherever you go, women will be critical of gender. Whether they are allowed to state this publicly can vary, but I would not like to belong to a site that silenced women for saying they DO believe transwomen are women, even if I don't agree! Is that really what you want to achieve? Censorship of opposing views?

@ShirleyPhallus

I support trans women

I also believe that sex cannot be changed and that the current trans movement is damaging to feminism

It’s possible to be both

🙌

@LiberaceTrumpet

I support transgender people and with gender reassignment surgery and hormone therapy you can utterly change sexi as the mind changes.

I wish someone would set up a British parenting forum that takes a trans-inclusive stance, to be honest.

There are plenty of other parenting forums you could check out. Netmums might be more your cup of tea.

But maybe that wouldn’t be so enjoyable as you wouldn’t get that rush of self-righteousness that comes from misrepresenting people and calling them bigots.

Honestly as a lifelong feminist I find the constant portrayal of gender critical feminists as being anti transwomen to be insulting, wrong and offensive in the extreme.
Your post has a false equivalence op.

I actually love these threads as they show the wonderful GC women of mumsnet as the kind, articulate, rational and inclusive people they are. I wouldn't be surprised if they do far more than most threads for helping people to understand the common sense behind a GC approach, as people with the 'shouldn't we just #bekind' approach will click on and then realise that the debate isn't what they thought it was.

I support transwomen. I am also gender critical.

I think biology & culture have worked hand in hand to create differing social norms for the two sexes.

That's exactly what a social construct is though!!

@BahHumbygge

Intersectional doesn't mean every thing has to intersect with penis.

Should the Cats Protection League be more "intersectional" and also rescue dogs? They must be real bigots for not expanding their remit to the canine species, no?

Feminism is for FEMALE people... there are other human rights movements for other sectors of humanity... can't women have their own political liberation movement?

100% agree @BahHumbygge

I wish someone would set up a British parenting forum that takes a trans-inclusive stance, to be honest. The way that people here spend hours coming up with theories and conspiracies and banding together in them doesn't sit right with me. It reminds me of the way incels talk online, weirdly

Go right ahead and set one up?
Or use the others because far as I know MN is the only one that allows gc discussion, therefore the rest dont.

I've never looked at what incels post online so I dont know if that's meant to be an insult?

Having equality doesn’t mean treating everybody exactly the same way.