Mumsnetters who support trans women, please comment here

[LiberaceTrumpet]

Mumsnetters who are gender critical - please please do not comment here, this is not a discussion thread, I just want to see if there are other people here who share my views.

I believe feminism is nothing if not intersectional.

I feel really alone on mumsnet. Every time I come on and want to get advice about something or just waste five minutes there's always another trans thread. Maybe this website is not the place for me?

What @ShirleyPhallus said 100%

OP, you are missing the point, perhaps deliberatly. Most people on here support transwomen, we just also happen to believe in women's sex-based rights. It's quite a balanced, reasonable view that acknowledges the issues on either side of the debate.

[quote GrammarTeacher]@LiberaceTrumpet you're not alone. Although the thread demonstrates why not many are commenting in support. It's relentless. [/quote]
What, the caveat of women supporting women too?

Is this really about having to abandon all other women and women's rights before being seen as properly on side? Because that seems to be what's being read as 'relentless' and

It's not really that women care about all women!

@somethinghastogive46 and @SionnachRua thank you. It's good to know I'm not alone. I don't really know what to do - it feels wrong to keep coming here sometimes and contributing to mumsnet's profits through seeing their ads. To me it feels like a really different place than it used to be because of all this. Perhaps I should leave, but then that gives the impression that all "British mums" feel this way, when I suspect (hope) it's just a vocal minority.

I wish someone would set up a British parenting forum that takes a trans-inclusive stance, to be honest. The way that people here spend hours coming up with theories and conspiracies and banding together in them doesn't sit right with me. It reminds me of the way incels talk online, weirdly.

agree fully with shirley

@GreyhoundG1rl the relentless refers to people being unprepared to accept that many feminists agree that trans women are women. We are feminists and we are just as entitled to our opinions. I don't particularly wish to be drawn into a pointless discussion on a Sunday though. I won't change your mind, you won't change mine. But not everyone on MN agrees with the dominant (by volume) view on the Feminist board.

[quote GrammarTeacher]@LiberaceTrumpet you're not alone. Although the thread demonstrates why not many are commenting in support. It's relentless. [/quote]
Seriously? If there are so many who are not GC, where are they? Being outnumbered doesn't mean you're being bullied. Nobody is telling you to go and die in a fire, or any of the other delightful advice thrown at GC women on e.g. Twitter.

I support trans people's rights to live their lives free of harassment and discrimination. I do not support the erosion of women's rights that some TRAs demand. Nor do I support the erosion of the meaning of the word 'woman'.

What are you complaining about? You asked people to come who supported your views and you got lots of people saying they support TW but apparently that is not what you wanted???? So you don't support TW?

@LiberaceTrumpetso what is so wrong with saying people entirely support trans women and men BUT that sex cannot be changed and, for matters of public policy and legislation, it is vitally important to acknowledge that? Why do you not see that as supportive?

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman I don't think I'm outnumbered. I think many many people ignore the feminist board now which is a huge huge shame.

@LiberaceTrumpet

Why did you all come here so quickly when I asked you please not to? Are other viewpoints just not allowed on this website?

I know whatever I say you're all going to rip me to shreds - it's bullying behaviour. Can't you see how you're silencing other viewpoints and beliefs on this website?

Nonsense.

You asked for people who support transwomen to comment. The GC and RadFem women I know all support transwomen's and transmen's rights to present how they wish, dress as they wish, be protected against discrimination and bullying, be protected in the workplace and haver all the other rights UK citizens have.

If you characterise us as not supporting transpeople's rights, we will obviously correct your misunderstanding.

No one has ripped you to shreds and no one has bullied you. No one is silencing you.

Most DO take a trans-inclusive stance. I care about your rights as a trans woman. That does NOT mean people have to align themselves with everything trans people say and pander to your hyperbole.

@ShirleyPhallus

I support trans women

I also believe that sex cannot be changed and that the current trans movement is damaging to feminism

It’s possible to be both

@ShirleyPhallus could you explain why the trans movement is damaging to feminism? I’m so confused by it all.

@LiberaceTrumpet

Why did you all come here so quickly when I asked you please not to? Are other viewpoints just not allowed on this website?

I know whatever I say you're all going to rip me to shreds - it's bullying behaviour. Can't you see how you're silencing other viewpoints and beliefs on this website?

Do you realise how ridiculous you sound?

People are posting in a perfectly civil way to say that they support trans women (and trans men, who you seem to have inexplicably forgotten about), but believe that it’s important that sex and gender are recognised as different things, and you decide that is bullying?

If you want an echo chamber, there is always Twitter where you can block anyone you don’t want to hear from. That isn’t how discussion forums work.

Why is it that the people who apparently few the way the OP does never have the tenacity to defend their position anywhere near as robustly as gender critical women on this forum?

Mumsnet is far and away one of the most open and respectful places on the internet - especially wrt feminism. I get that it may be intimidating if you’re only used to echo chambers and anything counter to the prevailing narrative being rapidly shut down. If you have a compelling argument, MN will listen and engage.

If you just have emojis, bleats of “be kiiiind” and no rational arguments then yes, you will get your arse handed to you…

[quote LiberaceTrumpet]**@somethinghastogive46* and @SionnachRua* thank you. It's good to know I'm not alone. I don't really know what to do - it feels wrong to keep coming here sometimes and contributing to mumsnet's profits through seeing their ads. To me it feels like a really different place than it used to be because of all this. Perhaps I should leave, but then that gives the impression that all "British mums" feel this way, when I suspect (hope) it's just a vocal minority.

I wish someone would set up a British parenting forum that takes a trans-inclusive stance, to be honest. The way that people here spend hours coming up with theories and conspiracies and banding together in them doesn't sit right with me. It reminds me of the way incels talk online, weirdly.[/quote]
I know, women talking articulately about women's rights. Grim eh... Just like incels...

I thought I was supportive of the trans movement but have been called transphobic by my teen DDs for refusing to state my pronouns on my email signature.

Why are you being so exclusionary of transmen, OP?

That’s awful.

I can’t agree with that.

I agree with @ShirleyPhallus

@LiberaceTrumpet I support trans women and would also love to have a place for support/guidance/sounding board for me and my child x

Surely mumsnet is trans inclusive, would anyone stop a trans person from posting? Or be unkind to them? They would rightly be deleted, and probably banned!
Agree with pp I don't think you want women to support trans women you want capitulation in every way.

I think your op needed to clearer. Did you mean for people to comment who feel they support transwomen or did you mean to ask people to comment who believe transwomen are women. Because they’re two different issues and conflating the two isn’t helpful.

Mumsnet is one of the very few spaces (well, the only space I know of) where people feel able to voice gender critical beliefs. These beliefs have literally been silenced everywhere else, including workplaces, often through legal action. Even in the absolute hotbed of awful TERF-ery that is one very specific board on this one forum, it feels like 10% of posts get removed.

I don't see how stating one's support for transwomen whilst adding a couple of specific caveats with regards to women's safety can possibly be seen as "bullying" or "silencing other viewpoints and beliefs"??