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Mumsnetters who support trans women, please comment here

999 replies

LiberaceTrumpet · 13/06/2021 14:19

Mumsnetters who are gender critical - please please do not comment here, this is not a discussion thread, I just want to see if there are other people here who share my views.

I believe feminism is nothing if not intersectional.

I feel really alone on mumsnet. Every time I come on and want to get advice about something or just waste five minutes there's always another trans thread. Maybe this website is not the place for me?

OP posts:
Clarice99 · 14/06/2021 18:24

@AlfonsoTheMango

If *@oneliner* is truly the inclusive, the only possible answer is "yes". Otherwise, it's not inclusivity.
I better not hold my breath Grin
CuriousaboutSamphire · 14/06/2021 18:33

Female = sex
Woman = adult female

So both are sex descriptors.

The woman = gender assertion is just a stealth move. Get enough women to think that's a reasonable compromise and suddenly we're back at female includes all women, transwomen are women.

So no. I'm not in anyway happy to see women = gender.

That's so blatantly dishonest it's shameful.

PlanDeRaccordement · 14/06/2021 19:15

@CardinalLolzy

Not trying to derail the thread, as I've asked this elsewhere. Just wanted to know what Plan thought as they specifically said that woman was a gender.
I mean “woman” is gender and not sex because of how we as humans largely identify who is a woman and who is a man based on appearances, mannerisms and so on. We instantly look at a person and our brain decides is this a man or a woman?

This is why “passing” is so important for transwomen. They adopt all the appearances and mannerisms of womanliness and these are all literally rooted in gender. Gender stereotypes, expectations, affectations, and some even surgically altering their bodies. It’s for themselves because they feel that it represents who they are, their real place in society. So if everyone around you automatically sees you as a woman and treats you as one, then to my mind, that is moving through society as a woman.

I know the old dictionary definition of “woman” is “adult female”. But those definitions were before we even had words to define differences in gender....when gender and sex were societally expected to match. When the words gender and sex were 100% interchangeable. And anyone that was “gender nonconforming” was ostracised and persecuted.

Now we are more aware and accepting that some females want to live as men and some males want to live as women, and they have the right to do so and be included, not ostracised. (Not saying any posters have said trans should be, just reiterating how things are more tolerant today than even in recent past).

I know too there are hundreds of different genders but really they are just different names for different combinations of feminine and masculine characteristics, which are all stereotypes anyway. I would rather abolish all that type of gender stuff as it is divisive.

Gender sums up to are you perceived by the humans around you as a man or a woman? This can be changed.

Sex is the biology, the DNA. This cannot be changed.

Rejoiningperson · 14/06/2021 19:25

Gender is ephemeral and fluid and stereotypical. It’s worthy of philosophical discussion, it’s interesting, it’s cultural.

What it isn’t is a factual tangible thing like biological sex.

So let’s not conflate the two!

littlebillie · 14/06/2021 19:27

Is this another thread where a man is telling women to shut up?

#womenwontwheesht

80sPadme · 14/06/2021 19:29

Op- I don't want to start a thread with negative responses about trans people and their supports.
Also OP- starts a Grady thread about trans people and supporting them.
Hmm

80sPadme · 14/06/2021 19:32

@80sPadme

Op- I don't want to start a thread with negative responses about trans people and their supports. Also OP- starts a Grady thread about trans people and supporting them. Hmm
Goady rather
Oneliner · 14/06/2021 20:01

Who's the man or male telling women or should that be females to shut up? This has become a parody! Try to see the person rather than the label and then consider equality. It's the future, thank goodness.

littlebillie · 14/06/2021 20:06

@LiberaceTrumpet is very lonely as they are new here today Grin

FactsAndFigs · 14/06/2021 20:14

@PlanDeRaccordement

Please explain what live as woman entails?

My brain doesn’t work like how you described I don’t know if that due to autistic or just over complicated in general.

I have child of both sexes and I will never be able to know what it’s like to be DS unlike DD.

How can you identify something that impossible to be as it not a feeling. Also what does as woman look like? As currently got black wellies on scraggy clothes and covered in dust from sanding and hands look like for plague from wood stain.

Erikrie · 14/06/2021 20:30

Try to see the person rather than the label and then consider equality. It's the future, thank goodness

Do you have any other rules for life that you'd like to share? And is equality your favourite word? ☺️

DigOutThoseLemonHandWipes · 14/06/2021 20:32

Ohh are we writing fortune cookies?

Erikrie · 14/06/2021 20:39

I like fortune cookies. They help guide my path in life. ☺️

paddingtonbearmeetsdeadpool · 14/06/2021 20:44

Try to see the person rather than the label and then consider equality. It's the future, thank goodness.

You have a very kind soul but where did you get that from. Where were you last year when people took to the streets to protest for BLM. My partner watched a football game with the fans in the stadium they booed when the players showed respect to George Floyd. What future are you living in where people are showing kindness and equality.

Oneliner · 14/06/2021 20:44

I do love the word equality, you're very welcome.

Helleofabore · 14/06/2021 20:45

Ooh Fortune cookies!!

“Be careful the words you call others aren’t simply a reflection of yourself.”

MouseyTheVampireSlayer · 14/06/2021 20:46

Where your treasure is, there will be your heart also.

Oneliner · 14/06/2021 20:48

Absolutely, equality for all Paddington.

GreyhoundG1rl · 14/06/2021 20:53

You sound like a bot, Oneliner. A particularly humourless one.

Erikrie · 14/06/2021 20:58

Actual fortune cookies:

I cannot help you for I am just a cookie

My favourite:

No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible

ArabellaScott · 14/06/2021 21:40

Follow your dreams. Be true to yourself. We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness. I'm thinking of aurochs and angels, the secret of durable pigments, prophetic sonnets, the refuge of art.

Paralithic · 14/06/2021 22:43

@Oneliner

Absolutely, equality for all Paddington.
Equality for all marmalade loving bears from darkest Peru?

OK. Sounds like a plan.

Tillygetsit · 14/06/2021 22:46

I support @ShirleyPhallus.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/06/2021 22:52

No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible

Ooh that's a good one.

Helleofabore · 14/06/2021 23:13

Equality for all marmalade loving bears from darkest Peru?

OK. Sounds like a plan.

Grin
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