Mumsnetters who support trans women, please comment here

[LiberaceTrumpet]

Mumsnetters who are gender critical - please please do not comment here, this is not a discussion thread, I just want to see if there are other people here who share my views.

I believe feminism is nothing if not intersectional.

I feel really alone on mumsnet. Every time I come on and want to get advice about something or just waste five minutes there's always another trans thread. Maybe this website is not the place for me?

Maybe Erikrie, the poster actually started to read the posts.

Musing ..................

I wonder if Rachel Dolezal had someone like oneliner blowing smoke up her ass saying it was okay to 'self ID' as a black woman?

Maybe Erikrie, the poster actually started to read the posts.

Ahh, you could be right. They did didn't they. It's all become clear now. I'm glad that's all cleared up now anyway

If @oneliner is truly the inclusive, the only possible answer is "yes". Otherwise, it's not inclusivity.

Edit: my post was in response to Clarice99's.

Sorry no time to read full thread.
I support transwomen.

I see transwomen as women because that term refers to gender.

I believe they should be seen, treated and respected as women....although most will find that being treated like a women IRL means harassment and disrespect. I think this causes cognitive dissonance in transwomen as being treated like a woman can be a nasty shock after living with male privilege the first part of your life. So I am sorry to say, but most of their discrimination complaints I do not sympathise with because it’s just normal everyday being treated like a woman. Birth women will know what I mean.

I do not believe though that biological sex can be changed. So I do not see transwomen as of the female sex. Again, they have the gender of woman, but are a male version of womanhood.

@WalkersAreNotTheOnlyCrisps

Go equality!

Whoop whoop

Is Equality a runner in the 17.40 at Doncaster?

If so, I’ll put a £1 each way and whoop whoop indeed.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Sorry no time to read full thread. I support transwomen.

I see transwomen as women because that term refers to gender.

I believe they should be seen, treated and respected as women....although most will find that being treated like a women IRL means harassment and disrespect. I think this causes cognitive dissonance in transwomen as being treated like a woman can be a nasty shock after living with male privilege the first part of your life. So I am sorry to say, but most of their discrimination complaints I do not sympathise with because it’s just normal everyday being treated like a woman. Birth women will know what I mean.

I do not believe though that biological sex can be changed. So I do not see transwomen as of the female sex. Again, they have the gender of woman, but are a male version of womanhood.

Male version of womanhood.

Please take the time to read the full thread when you can.

@GromblesOfGrimbledon
Yes will do, just working on dinner now.

I see transwomen as women because that term refers to gender.

If your sex is female and your gender is woman, does your gender match your sex? They are two different terms meaning different things.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@GromblesOfGrimbledon
Yes will do, just working on dinner now.[/quote]

It's a big one! But worth reading thoroughly.

Have an open mind to some of the concerns raised by GC posters and note that none (bar I think one disgruntled poster) have said they don't support trans people.

Rather, they are engaging with the trans debate in a manner that's a little more subtle than some of the "yay equality!" type contributions we've had on here today.

@CardinalLolzy

I see transwomen as women because that term refers to gender.

If your sex is female and your gender is woman, does your gender match your sex? They are two different terms meaning different things.

The term woman does not refer to gender. It's biological sex.

The term woman does not refer to gender. It's biological sex.

Correct: a woman is an adult human female.

I support transwomen (and transmen).

I Fully believe sex cannot be changed. The latter doesn’t prevent me being supportive of the former.

I also support women’s rights and am concerned that they are being eroded.

”I see transwomen as women because that term refers to gender.”

It doesn’t, it refers to sex. Definitions of woman in dictionaries and in legislation are adult human female.

Lobbying to change that definition is a valid position to take, but changing the definition of a large group of people with one protected characteristic would be a huge thing and have significant ramifications.

What was the response like when same question was asked over at F4J or FNF, do they support trans?

You have to make effort to sign up to look at their forum and am not interested in either site

The term woman does not refer to gender. It's biological sex.

Gender can be anything you feel, though. It's not just male/female.
So, if your sex is female, and you feel that the best word that describes your gender is "woman" (as Plan suggested) are you trans, because they don't match?
Or are you not trans, because there is some inherent relationship between being a female and being a woman? If so, what is that overlap?

@CardinalLolzy

The term woman does not refer to gender. It's biological sex.

Gender can be anything you feel, though. It's not just male/female.
So, if your sex is female, and you feel that the best word that describes your gender is "woman" (as Plan suggested) are you trans, because they don't match?
Or are you not trans, because there is some inherent relationship between being a female and being a woman? If so, what is that overlap?

I don't understand a word of that

I support transwoman and trans men

I don't support the notion that trans rights trump women's rights or that there are any rights trans people don't already have.

Your not the only one. Mainly because trying to explain it is utterly impossible!

I don't understand a word of that
"Trans" is frequently defined as "when your birth sex doesn't match your gender".

Gender can be anything teentalk.ca/learn-about/gender-identity/

I'm interested in whether any of them match with the two biological sexes except for the obvious female/female and male/male.
Or perhaps PPs are correct and there is no such gender as "woman" - I'm not well-versed in gender theory to say either way.

@CardinalLolzy

I don't understand a word of that "Trans" is frequently defined as "when your birth sex doesn't match your gender".

Gender can be anything teentalk.ca/learn-about/gender-identity/

I'm interested in whether any of them match with the two biological sexes except for the obvious female/female and male/male.
Or perhaps PPs are correct and there is no such gender as "woman" - I'm not well-versed in gender theory to say either way.

But your example was "Sex = female, Gender = woman" and suggested that person was trans because there was a mix match. I literally don't get this.

But your example was "Sex = female, Gender = woman"
and suggested that person was trans because there was a mix match. I literally don't get this.

In adult humans, do you think female always means the same thing as woman, and vice versa? Some would argue yes, some no.
If they don't mean the same thing, then do they "match"? How?

@CardinalLolzy

*But your example was "Sex = female, Gender = woman" and suggested that person was trans because there was a mix match. I literally don't get this.*

In adult humans, do you think female always means the same thing as woman, and vice versa? Some would argue yes, some no.
If they don't mean the same thing, then do they "match"? How?

Jesus Christ...

Not trying to derail the thread, as I've asked this elsewhere. Just wanted to know what Plan thought as they specifically said that woman was a gender.