Mumsnetters who support trans women, please comment here

[LiberaceTrumpet]

Mumsnetters who are gender critical - please please do not comment here, this is not a discussion thread, I just want to see if there are other people here who share my views.

I believe feminism is nothing if not intersectional.

I feel really alone on mumsnet. Every time I come on and want to get advice about something or just waste five minutes there's always another trans thread. Maybe this website is not the place for me?

But, I hope for all those transgender people who might also be reading this thread, they can take some comfort from knowing many people do support and value them

I agree

This is a thread full of supportive people which is awesome

(if you added it up, it would no doubt be centuries)

How very dare you!!!

@Oneliner

I'm only reading a lot of nonsensical prejudice. But, I hope for all those transgender people who might also be reading this thread, they can take some comfort from knowing many people do support and value them.

I think that we have shown that we have persistence here.

The prejudice is not coming from the many informed posts that have patiently explained the differences in approaches.

The prejudice is not coming from the many parent of teenagers that are dealing with the real affects of gender identity on their teenagers physical and mental health and still explaining to you the differences in approaches and that your 'all or nothing' approach is harmful.

The prejudice on this thread has come from you and the people who have stated that they are on OP's 'side' implying that they think anything other than an all or nothing approach is hate. This is very simplistic. I cannot imagine how that approach works out in other aspects of the lives of people expressing it?

So, let's keeping repeating it.

Transpeople need all of our support and they are valued.

To treat them as if they cannot read and take in a diverse range of opinions is actually very offensive.

It is infantilising and it is patronising.

Not really supportive is it?

I figure Arabella that I might make up half of a century just me ... so, you know... I had to make room for others who are much, much younger...

@Oneliner

I'm only reading a lot of nonsensical prejudice. But, I hope for all those transgender people who might also be reading this thread, they can take some comfort from knowing many people do support and value them.

Ah, bless!

I'm serious. This is so transparent it doesn't deserve any further engagement.

Equality for all people is simplistic. Trying to justify a stance otherwise, as demonstrated here, involves trying to construct an argument reliant on redefining equality to that of Orwell's Animal Farm. Or the accusation that I must be a man with male privilege. Alas, you're not my intended audience. To all the transgender people, as per the OP, you have my support.

If you perceive this as moral superiority, is that because you recognise on some level at least, that there is a moral deficiency in your own point of view? Transpeople, you valued, you are equal to others

Comments like these make me realise that gender ideology is very similar to some extreme religious beliefs. Are you actually able to read and understand whats on the page? Or do you instead just see what you think is there? Utterly baffling.

@Oneliner

Equality for all people is simplistic. Trying to justify a stance otherwise, as demonstrated here, involves trying to construct an argument reliant on redefining equality to that of Orwell's Animal Farm. Or the accusation that I must be a man with male privilege. Alas, you're not my intended audience. To all the transgender people, as per the OP, you have my support.

You've just said trans people are "equal" to others. Now you're telling us we might not have fully grasped what the word equal means?

Are you actually able to read and understand whats on the page? Or do you instead just see what you think is there? Utterly baffling

It is isnt it

If you perceive this as moral superiority

I don't. But I and other pp can see that you do. Unfortunately congratulating oneself on one's moral superiority and actually being morally superior are two quite separate things.

@Oneliner

Equality for all people is simplistic. Trying to justify a stance otherwise, as demonstrated here, involves trying to construct an argument reliant on redefining equality to that of Orwell's Animal Farm. Or the accusation that I must be a man with male privilege. Alas, you're not my intended audience. To all the transgender people, as per the OP, you have my support.

Not your intended audience!

On a forum about women's rights!

My but you do surprise me.

By the way, have you been over to any male centric fora to give them the same message?

Or is it just us, the more polite, constrained section of society you enjoy haranguing?

Equality for all people is simplistic.

The concept may be, the practise and how to achieve 'equality' is not simplistic at all. It involves many years of work and a deep and abiding knowledge of what the group need and how that then impacts on other groups.

Trying to justify a stance otherwise, as demonstrated here, involves trying to construct an argument reliant on redefining equality to that of Orwell's Animal Farm.

Please support this claim with evidence. I think you are adding a great deal of drama to this, but that seems to have been the style you adopted on this thread.

Can you instance clarify whether you believe that female's needs should not have the same value as transpeople's needs, please? Because that has also seemed to be the implication.

Or the accusation that I must be a man with male privilege.

Has someone said this? I must have missed it.

Alas, you're not my intended audience.

No.... your intended audience is surely the people also reading this thread. To whom you have displayed how you view reasoned discussion and the way you deal with women who disagree with you. And it seems to me, and I could be wrong here, that you are also infantilising the trans people who are reading by simply resorting to mantras and the implication that any dissent is hate.

As I have said, not very supportive. It could be said that your lack of evidence to support any of your claims should, in fact, lead all readers to question the very foundations of those claims.

To all the transgender people, as per the OP, you have my support.

And mine, and I believe nearly every single poster on the thread.

I always champion equality, everywhere, including here. Go equality! OP, don't lose heart.

@BlueLipstickRocks

A system of belief that ignores the second in favour of the first cannot bring equality for all.

But a system that ignores the first in favour of the second can bring equality?

No. Neither works by itself.

Whether or not one believes in innate gender, here and now trans people clearly do exist and they do not deserve to feel hurt, oppressed, limited or unsafe any more than female people do. And just like female people they are not just one monolithic group.

We should be looking for a way that acknowledges and works for people as people not people as ideologies, and that means listening with the aim of finding common ground not asserting our ideologies on each other.

I really hope this thread doesn't get deleted for the fact that GC women are being called names yet are expressing their 'support' of transwomen.

The thread also highlights double standards.

The OP posted and ran when it wasn't going the way she wanted it to, which appears contrived.

I always champion equality, everywhere, including here. Go equality! OP, don't lose heart.

Do you need you go and lie down? You sound exhausted. It must be hard trying to reach that moral high ground that you dream of.

@Oneliner

I always champion equality, everywhere, including here. Go equality! OP, don't lose heart.

yes.... we agree!!!

GO EQUALITY!!!! You champion !!!!

I find @oneliner's posts entertaining and hope they continue.

GO EQUALITY!!!! You champion !!!!

I find @oneliner's posts entertaining and hope they continue.

Me too.

Or the accusation that I must be a man with male privilege

Has someone said this? I must have missed it

I missed it as well, and as i generally wince when people say it sooooo…

Ah, thanks! I think we're making progress...OP you can come back, it's safe to seek support for transpeople.

@Oneliner

Ah, thanks! I think we're making progress...OP you can come back, it's safe to seek support for transpeople.

Transpeople always had support on this thread!

You seem to not be able to read.

However, can you now answer the question:

Do you believe that female's needs should have less value than transpeople's needs?

Go equality!

Whoop whoop

Ah, thanks! I think we're making progress...OP you can come back, it's safe to seek support for transpeople.

Ahh, you finally noticed that the women here don't hate transpeople after all. Great stuff. :-)