Honestly - what are your plans for housing when you get older?

[Chicchicchicchiclana]

Slightly inspired by another thread but not a TAAT.

I see so many threads on Mumsnet where elderly parents do not want to move out of a house or home that is no longer suitable for them. My own 90 year old mother is in this situation. Although she lives in a bungalow it has front and back gardens that she hasn't been able to maintain for about 10 years and if anything goes wrong in the house either my brother or I have to sort it for her. She needs her bathroom converting now. We've overseen a new boiler and kitchen refurb, sourcing all the materials and workmen and keeping her company while work is going on - even though we both live quite a distance away.

The time for her to have moved to sheltered accommodation would have been about 5 years ago, but she didn't want to do it "because of the effort/stress".

My pledge to my children I make here and now is that I will face facts and do the right thing re. downsizing before I get too old for it.

Why don't some of the older generation get it? I know it's a form of denial and I know people can passionately love their houses and all the memories they represent, but why didn't they think about it before?

I don't mean to sound heartless and unkind. But have you thought about it (maybe 60ish plus) and what are your plans?

In london it’s costing my aunt £72k ... per year
and what this means is that the elderly become mere conduits via which their liquidated assets are funneled into the pockets of whoever owns the care home

[quote exexpat]@blossomtoes - I think by 'their preferences cannot be catered for!' might be referring to the desire an awful lot of elderly people seem to have to stay in their own family homes and have their children deal with all their care, house maintenance, shopping, taxi-ing to hospital appointments because they can't/won't use public transport and so on.

That might be their preference, but it certainly is not the preference of many adult children (mainly daughters) who are expected to provide all the care and support to elderly parents living in unsuitable places (expected by the parents themselves, but also by wider family, social services etc).

Like I said in my earlier post, I am unwillingly dealing with the consequences of my parents' making that choice (or rather, avoiding the hard choice to downsize to somewhere more suitable when they were still able to), but I am not going to put my children through it.[/quote]
It would have been helpful if that pp had said that. I looked after my parents in exactly the way you describe. It was an honour and a privilege. My son, having seen his mum do it, says that he’ll do the same for me if necessary. It’s what families do in mine.

A couple who can afford it may well not wish to move to anything smaller than a 3 bed.
1 bedroom each (for e.g. one gets a bad regular cough which keeps the other awake)
Plus a bedroom free for live in care /occasional care.

I do not find it an honour or a privilege, for example, to sit yet again with one of my parents sprawled on the floor, waiting for the careline assistants or paramedics to help them up or check they are not badly injured, after they have fallen for the umpteenth time while trying to get to the downstairs loo (down one step which they can now no longer manage).

It is not an honour or a privilege to watch my mother painfully pushing herself along step by step with her rolling Zimmer frame because she refused knee replacement surgery a decade ago, because she was worried about coping with the stairs in the house during the recovery period. Of course within a couple of years her arthritis had progressed so badly that she was descending those stairs on her bum, and my father took several more years to consent to having a stair lift installed, and she is now far past the point where she would survive major surgery.

It is not an honour or a privilege to have to push my mother along a narrow pavement in a wheelchair, when she is terrified of the passing oil tankers, to get to my car for one of her rare trips out (to a medical appointment or now to visit my father in his care home), when she could be living somewhere with level access, no traffic, the possibility of a social life and shops accessible by mobility scooter.

I absolutely do not want to let myself get stuck in a beautiful prison of a house, and I do not want my children to have to sacrifice their own lives to enable me to escape the consequences of my own choices.

@exexpat, we’re different 🤷‍♀️

We have half an eye on the future. We're mid 50s, no DC and hoping to retire at 60. After a lot of soul-searching we've decided we will be staying in our 3 bed Victorian terrace which we love and which is close to all amenities. We are spending money on the house now while we're still earning well so that it will be in good stead for the future. The third bedroom used to be a bathroom until the previous owners had a third child when they converted it to a bedroom and built a bathroom downstairs. My point being that the water supply etc is still in place so we will probably change that back to a toilet at least and we'll add a stairlift to our nice straight staircase if needed. Future owners can do what they like.

[quote Blossomtoes]@exexpat, we’re different 🤷‍♀️[/quote]
Would you really find it an honour to watch your parents suffering unnecessary pain, injuries, hospitalisations and restrictions to their lives because they wanted to stay in the same house they had lived in for nearly 50 years?

Would you really find it an honour to watch your parents suffering unnecessary pain, injuries, hospitalisations and restrictions to their lives because they wanted to stay in the same house they had lived in for nearly 50 years?

I did. It was their choice and I respected it.

@blossomtoes What I am trying to point out is that my parents' choices have been disastrous for them, as well as imposing a huge burden on me.

No matter how saintly and self-sacrificing a daughter I try to be (I'm their only surviving offspring, so it all falls on me), nothing I do can actually compensate for all the bad consequences of staying in an unsuitable home. Their lives are totally miserable, and if I did not set up some boundaries and limits, mine would be too.

@Blossomtoes

Would you really find it an honour to watch your parents suffering unnecessary pain, injuries, hospitalisations and restrictions to their lives because they wanted to stay in the same house they had lived in for nearly 50 years?

I did. It was their choice and I respected it.

In that case, yes, we are very different. I look at bad choices and wish they had chosen differently. I think they also regret things now, but it is too late. And I am going to learn from their mistakes.

I don't need to downsize as we're in a 2 bedroom house but it's in the part of town at the bottom of a hill when all the shops, library etc are in the other part of town.

The problem is there is nothing suitable to buy so we will be stuck here. Any bungalows are way out of our price range and get snapped up really quickly.

My parent swapped their big house for our very small one 10 years ago when they were in their late 60's and we had no space because of many DC. There were various legalities that had to be sorted but it is an arrangement that has worked splendidly well for both of us. I won't inherit much but I'm enjoying the space now when I need it.
More parents should consider something similar before they are too old but I have friends who have tried to talk to their parents about it and they've refused to engage.

but where are all these small places to downsize to?

I'm a proper grown up who's spent a lifetime progressing to a nice home. I'd like somewhere smaller, but I still want rooms with decent proportions in a nice area and detached. I'm not moving back to a terraced starter home. The few small cottages and bungalows around aren't less maintenance than my large modern house and they aren't cheaper either.

I agree with this ^

I think it is easy to say what you will do, 20 years hence.
But in 20 years time, you'll think, I like it here, I like the space, I like the hobby rooms and the fact the GC can come to stay, and I'm still well.
And carry on, until one day, you find you aren't well, and can't quite face it.

and this ^

@OrangePowder is absolutely right. Our dc are grown up. I'd like to downsize. I've been looking at Rightmove for a while now. However, I've moved up the property ladder over decades, and now don't want to lose what I've gained. I'd like a smaller house. I'd really like a smaller garden. However I don't want to return to a terraced house. I've grown to like not hearing neighbours. I do still want enough space to have adult dc round. We are currently both working from home. We would need to be able to accommodate that.

The general theory of "downsizing", I'm absolutely on board with. I'd love our home to be passed on to a young family as we were when we moved in here. The practical realities aren't so straightforward though.

One of the reasons it’s so difficult to find a smaller property to downsize to is what feels like an obsession with extending. It’s having a real impact on the supply of smaller houses.

@OrangePowder is absolutely right. Our dc are grown up. I'd like to downsize. I've been looking at Rightmove for a while now. However, I've moved up the property ladder over decades, and now don't want to lose what I've gained. I'd like a smaller house. I'd really like a smaller garden. However I don't want to return to a terraced house. I've grown to like not hearing neighbours. I do still want enough space to have adult dc round. We are currently both working from home. We would need to be able to accommodate that.

This, again and again. It can't be stated enough. Nearly every day a thread about twat neighbours and nothing to be done about them. And with plenty of people who will need to work into their 70s and this whole 'WFH for the environment!' something has to give.

Where I live in Melbourne I can walk to my dentist, doctor, bank, fishmonger, supermarket et etc. And the sea. It's where most of my friends are. I am widowed, and my grownup DD lives independently. My house is large, and I'm working to manage the garden into only permanent planting and the veggie patch.

Downsizing is a real problem. The smaller single storey houses that are the same age as mine, are not to the same standard of heating/cooling, decoration, etc. as mine is, having renovated it to death. I have no wish to start again with renovations. Houses that are up to date are hideous units squashed onto tiny blocks of land, and still cost as much to buy as my house would sell for. There's simply no incentive to move.

At 66 I'll retire next year, and if my health goes tits up I can live downstairs as, like most older Australian houses, there are bedrooms and the main bathroom on the ground floor. Not being open plan, the house can be sectioned off for heating and cooling.

I'm in a fortunate position, though I'd give my eyeteeth for a proper single storey house on its own block. And a verandah. :o

I do think granny annexes are a good solution for those that can afford them. But with care bought in.

This I'm not paying for a cleaner/gardener/carer etc now that is selfish if there's sufficient resources to pay for it.

I also could not face a buying a bungalow. It seemed like waiting to get old. I'm in my 50s and working all the hours god sends to build up my business. I haven't got time to get old. I've got a big mortgage still and won't get state pension until 67 so more than a decade away.

I have a friend who years ago moved into a retirement flat at what I thought was a very young age (mid 60s). She has a great life there, she says she is never alone, has made lots of friends and there is always something going on (albeit before the pandemic). She has only recently retired and is fit and healthy, but there are staff and carers there for residents who need them, or who can recognise and initiate help from health and social services when needed. She was a community nurse and no doubt saw a great deal of vulnerability from older people who are resistant to change even if it would make their lives better. Meanwhile I am at the beck and call of my mum who has dementia and has isolated herself off in a house in the middle of nowhere and is becoming more and more demanding. She never experienced this with her parents, but I refuse to enforce this on my DCs, I absolutely intend to go to a retirement flat in my 60s.

I spent time decluttering a couple of years ago. I mean, really decluttering. I pared down everything I had to a small set of furniture, kitchenware, and reduced my clothing to the basics and some nice seasonal outfits.
Everything else I sold, gave away, took to charity and so on.

I now live in a rented flat. It is cheap, pretty and in a lovely country area. I will be able to afford to live here on a state pension. I am not using up housing that can go to others, and when I die there is the very minimum amount of stuff for the family to sort out.

I do have a car as I currently work part-time and need to get to work, but it's leased and I will give it up when I retire fully. I think I am doing my bit for the planet as well as for the family in the future when I am older....

@exexpat
I get it and understand . I see it as it’s my fathers choice to want to stay in his home which Is falling down around him

But he can’t really do it without me filling in the gaps
he and the social worker will expect me to pick up the stuff that the care workers can’t do . And I’m not doing it .
I’ve already said if my dad comes home he’s on his own if he’s got capacity to make that decision then he needs to understand that I won’t be assisting him in any part of that decision because I don’t agree with it .

It was me getting called at 3 am because he had a fall because he decided that he wanted to go and make a cup of tea.
It’s me going to his house to see if I can get him back up on his feet and then arguing with him because he doesn’t want an ambulance - because he knows that means he will go back in hospital .

It’s me going back down at 9am the same bloody day because he’s had another fall in the bathroom this time

In the space of 3 days he had 3 falls none of them serious at the time but it’s so much stress . I would jump every time the phone rang because I thought it would be the careline telling me he had another fall

I’m not doing this shit anymore if my dad goes home and he falls over he will stay there till the ambulance arrives or the carers come in . If he’s on the floor all night tough shit .

I’m not having his fucking stupid choices making me ill .
I’ve told him and the SW that his choice to come home will have consequences and as long as he is aware of that then it’s down to him
I refuse to be guilt tripped by anyone .

I’ve already removed my number from the care line pendent and told them that should he call them then they need to call an ambulance . Just in case he comes home .
To be fair though if he did come home he would be back in hospital within a week so I’m not that bothered.

DH and I had this conversation last week as retirement is looming, we will have a decent income (thank God) and decent pot behind us and possibly an inheritance if it is not required for nursing care so can please God stay here and adapt as required.

There is one step up at the front door.

The shower is walk in.

We have a downstairs toilet and the french doors at the back of the house open out on to a patio that is all on the same level with the garden.

Once we install a stairlift (at some point, it all feels doable.) Fingers crossed.

No doubt someone will be along soon to point out a huge and possibly large and obvious flaw in our plan.

The only flaw depends on where the house is!
Close to decent public transport and stuff you need? Issues often arise when people stop driving.

I’ve worked with elderly people and this has definitely crossed my mind. I’m currently in a council property with an assured tenancy so I’d look at exchanging to a two bedroom bungalow when this property becomes too big. I have a huge garden which is lovely now but I’d probably struggle with when I’m a lot older. I’d probably want to stay in this house while I’m likely to have young grandchildren around.

I am thinking that I may move to my home city after retirement.

We have very elderly, frail neighbours in this situation. Their dcs are good and visit quite often, but they’re not around the corner, so phone calls to us when they need help for this or that are frequent. We’ve known them for many years and are honestly happy to help, , but it’s far too late for any move to more suitable accommodation - they’d never cope with everything being so different/unfamiliar, and every aspect of the whole thing would need to be managed by their dcs.

I think it’s true to say that many very elderly who are still just about managing - albeit perhaps not very well - are only doing so because everything from the location of the loo, to how the cooker works and how the taps turn on and off - is so very familiar. Transplant them into what seems like the perfect, manageable flat, where every single thing is different, can precipitate a rapid inability to cope at all.

TBH our neighbours should both be in care homes by now, but they won’t even hear of it, and I doubt very much that funds for the huge cost for two of them, would be available. The house would of course need to be sold - I dare say fees could be ‘rolled up’ until that happened.

I don’t think anything is going to change until one of them pops off. If it was her, he’d def. need to go into a CH - if him, she might just about manage for a while, but recently became very lonely and rather muddled, when he was recently in hospital for a month. I don’t think there’s any dementia yet though - having seen so much of it in our own relatives, I think I’d be able to tell.