Manners - are there any you didn't know about until you were older?

[CheeseToastieLove]

Is there anything you didn't realise was bad manners until you were an adult. Things you weren't told when you were young? I didn't realise it was good manners to leave your alcohol at a party when you were leaving until I was in my late 20s. Always took my half full bottle home with me! Cringe. My friend was never taught it was bad manners to start eating before everyone's meals had arrived until she was in her 30s. She was always half finished before everyone had been served.

@LemonRoses

"Curious now. What do shoes off because of the carpet people do about wet dogs? We hose ours off after a run, if necessary, but they still bring in footprints and shaken water aplenty."

Hose him down outside, then dry his paws with a towel and he stays in the kitchen/hall area until he's dried off a bit. Wouldn't say it's comparable with the shoes on or off debate, as it's the equivalent of a human going out barefoot, getting muddy, and then rinsing the mud off and drying their feet.

I am amazed at shoes off being rude to some people . And that some people think of socks as underwear...they're not to me, they're socks, feet aren't particularly private, they don't have to be covered like your bum or your boobs . Do people who think this never wear sandals? Or is that why some people wear socks with sandals

@Gwenhwyfar

"Good manners mean everybody knows what to expect, everybody is more at ease and comfortable, and people show basic respect towards each other."

No, it's the opposite isn't it because a quick read through of Debretts is not going to make someone upper class. It's a game most of us are always going to lose.

But manners are about not offending people eg not upstaging the bride by wearing a new white dress and hat, not humiliating the office temp by saying ‘what’s she done?’ in front of her, not disgusting people by talking with your mouth full. Becoming upper class is not most people’s object so we don’t lose by trying to behave ourselves.

I actually find the idea that if you are not upper class you can't have good manners quite strange - and a bit rude!.

I don't mind showing my socks (as long as I knew in advance it would be required, so I have matching nice ones on), what gets me is the inability to boost my height with heels at a shoes-off event!

I had really bad bunions which distorted all my toes. I hated swimming pools, sleepovers and taking my shoes off in peoples houses. So embarrassing.
I never make people take their shoes off. People usually offer especially if it’s wet or muddy but I have a door mat and laminate so not bothered.
In the summer I’d rather have shoes than sweaty socks or bare feet on my floors actually.

"But manners are about not offending people eg not upstaging the bride by wearing a new white dress and hat, not humiliating the office temp by saying ‘what’s she done?’ in front of her, not disgusting people by talking with your mouth full.
Becoming upper class is not most people’s object so we don’t lose by trying to behave ourselves."

It's not about being nice and behaving ourselves though. A lot of the examples on here are etiquette, special rules that plebs like me will never fully understand.

@freakyfridays

I actually find the idea that if you are not upper class you can't have good manners quite strange - and a bit rude!.

We've seen on here that nobody understand the buttering your roll thing. Nobody knows why some posh people only butter a small part at a time, or why or how it came about. So many of the rules are just arbitrary.

I was taught manners by my parents, but they are not the same as everyone else's manners and not the same as etiquette. It's impossible to be up on everything.

"Being working class has never stopped anyone from mastering good manners, being confident and comfortable. That's the point."

Of course it has. Being middle class too.

"It's not a game, and most of it is common sense."

This very thread is proof that it's not 'common sense' at all!

Nobody knows why some posh people only butter a small part at a time, or why or how it came about.

because you don't make a sandwich when you are having a normal diner?

Still not sure what it has to do with being posh (because it hasn't) but it's pretty obvious you don't start buttering the whole thing at the diner table?

I was taught manners by my parents, but they are not the same as everyone else's manners and not the same as etiquette. It's impossible to be up on everything.

Of course not, but there are books for that.

Most people (posh or not) research before going somewhere they are unsure about, especially abroad and with different cultures or religions.

What is 'double dipping'?

@freakyfridays

Nobody knows why some posh people only butter a small part at a time, or why or how it came about.

because you don't make a sandwich when you are having a normal diner?

Still not sure what it has to do with being posh (because it hasn't) but it's pretty obvious you don't start buttering the whole thing at the diner table?

It's not obvious at all and if you read the thread you'd realise there's complete confusion about it.

@LesLavandes

What is 'double dipping'?

This is why these things are not obvious. Read the thread and watch the clip I posted from Seinfeld.

"Of course not, but there are books for that."

I made the point that reading one book will not teach you all of that.

I think the trouble is that without rules, you would get more conflict not less. Everyone would be fighting to the death over what their mother taught them. This almost happened the first time I went on holiday with a friend and she tried to insist we both ate pudding with a soup spoon. I don’t think she would do that now because she will have learnt it’s not done.
Christmas is rather like this because there is no accepted etiquette on when and how to open presents, have dinner and so on. It all causes conflict.
Without rules you would have to argue every detail of everything all the time.
I agree it’s not common sense anymore than which side of the road to drive on, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t help.

Freaky Fridays- really? No not at all obvious people shouldn't butter rolls at dinner!!!

but it's pretty obvious you don't start buttering the whole thing at the diner table?

No it isn't. I had to ask several times on this thread why it was considered a faux pas.

Next time I’m at a large gathering, I will try to observe how many people butter the whole roll.
I would expect it to be the majority at any gathering I’m likely to attend - even excluding family anniversaries.
@freakyfridays does it bother you? Just wondering. If it looks like an obvious or deliberate mistake to you, does it offend you?

Not knowing that dipping your half-eaten carrot stick back into the communal hummous is called “double dipping” doesn’t mean that there is widespread confusion about whether it is gross or not...

does it offend you?

of course not. But it's generally a lot more pleasant when people have good table manners, you don't even notice them eating for a start. It's also much easier, especially when you are the host.

I AM wary to offend someone if we clearly don't have the same habits or rules. When it's cultural, you can research it, but when it's your own and the completely opposite of what is natural to you and everything you can read, it's.. tricky.

@Changechangychange

Not knowing that dipping your half-eaten carrot stick back into the communal hummous is called “double dipping” doesn’t mean that there is widespread confusion about whether it is gross or not...

But there are plenty of people who don't know about it. And just because you think it's disgusting doesn't mean everyone does. I've given the example of friends drinking from the same bottle.

Freakyfriday - it really is cultural norms though. For much of the uk buttering a roll would be in no way offensive and quite normal! So your shock at it is purely ypur conditioning.

I think I have only really heard the term ‘double dipping’ used figuratively to mean claiming twice for the same expense.
Is it always a hygiene thing? Has it always been?

@SavingsQuestions

Freakyfriday - it really is cultural norms though. For much of the uk buttering a roll would be in no way offensive and quite normal! So your shock at it is purely ypur conditioning.

I am curious about the constant need for hyperboles.

"offended", "shocked"... who is any of these things?

And just because you think it's disgusting doesn't mean everyone does. I've given the example of friends drinking from the same bottle.

for many people, you don't really need to act differently with friends or with colleagues, the same basic manners work.

So apply that with drinking from the same bottle at work or with randoms...and you got your answer.

And this is MN, where half the posters faint at the idea to even smell a home-baked anything