Manners - are there any you didn't know about until you were older?

[CheeseToastieLove]

Is there anything you didn't realise was bad manners until you were an adult. Things you weren't told when you were young? I didn't realise it was good manners to leave your alcohol at a party when you were leaving until I was in my late 20s. Always took my half full bottle home with me! Cringe. My friend was never taught it was bad manners to start eating before everyone's meals had arrived until she was in her 30s. She was always half finished before everyone had been served.

Only got to page 15 but read a comment from somebody right handed saying our cutlery placing feels weird to them your technically correct. If you look into how the cutlery is set it actually suits a true left handed person better its a bit like in polo and hockey the you can't get a left handed stick but you can play backhand

@RampantIvy

Or, some of us live in parts of the UK where wet and mud is the default, and no amount of wiping feet on the door mat will make shoes clean enough to walk on a nice carpet. And because it is cold and damp for most of the year hard floors just make the house feel colder, so many houses have carpet in rooms that aren't kitchens, toilets and bathrooms.

Having said that, I never ask people to remove their shoes. It is the default where I live. People just do it automatically.

I use Sloppas as do friends just popping indoors from the yard without having to remove muddy & wet footwear. They really do work.🙂

The black vehicles, yes.. but not the line of 20 random cars following.

I get anxiety when I see one now because I don't know when they end.

@SarahAndQuack

The can/may thing pisses me off. People are so gleefully patronising about it - and it never occurs to any of them that if we're going to get all literal about "can" being a question of ability, then "may" is a question of likelihood so no more appropriate to the context.

I agree with you people can be daft about it, but may isn't a question of likelihood in this context. It's a request, asking permission.

Well yes; but then can isn't a question of ability in this context. It's a request, asking permission.

My point is that neither verb was originally used to request permission, and each has been separately co-opted to do the job (because oddly enough, we don't appear to have a short word that only means "to receive permission"). Neither is more rational than the other, and it's simply a shibboleth.

I wish a previous poster's daughter invited to spelling-test tea had felt able to reply with "oh that one's easy: f-u-c-k-o-f-f-y-o-u-w-a-n-k-e-r-s"

Do I have very unusual or vulgar cheese knives? I'm struggling to see how one would cut a sliver down the length of the brie wedge (a good six inches) with the brie knife in the drawer (about two inches).

"it was unheard of when i was young, to take your shoes off in someone else's house. far too intimate. talk about getting your feet under the table, ie taking over the place, behaving as if you own it/live there."

I wasn't allowed to take them off even in my grandparents' house when I was staying there.

@Gwenhwyfar

"it was unheard of when i was young, to take your shoes off in someone else's house. far too intimate. talk about getting your feet under the table, ie taking over the place, behaving as if you own it/live there."

I wasn't allowed to take them off even in my grandparents' house when I was staying there.

I’m glad this has been highlighted. I’m not actually sure when the ‘rules’ changed regarding this. It was another memo I seemed to have missed.

@merryhouse Do I have very unusual or vulgar cheese knives? I'm struggling to see how one would cut a sliver down the length of the brie wedge (a good six inches) with the brie knife in the drawer (about two inches).

Can't help myself, our cheese knife 10 inch. And we eat very little soft cheese .

"I’m glad this has been highlighted. I’m not actually sure when the ‘rules’ changed regarding this. It was another memo I seemed to have missed."

In the 80s it was considered a bit posh then I think it seemed aspirational and then became more and more the norm.
I had to learn never to wear socks with holes in them.

A possible couple of reasons why shoes off has come about is that carpet fashions have changed since the 70s and 80s, when carpets were often heavily patterned, in favour of plain carpets (and pale ones at that). These plain pale carpets show dirt marks a lot more so people are more aware of them and take steps (no pun intended!) to prevent marks.

Secondly, overall the whole cleaning and showhouse thing has really taken off in recent years and keeping things nice and "visitor ready" is aspirational rather than uptight, as some thought of it in the past.

For myself, I only really started to never wear shoes on the carpet when I had a baby, who would roll and crawl about on the floor. I just didn't want her face so close to a carpet that was walked on in shoes that had possibly trodden in something.

I wouldn't ever make visitors remove their shoes. If they want to, that's fine, if they don't want to, I would never ask them to.

@Gwenhwyfar

"it was unheard of when i was young, to take your shoes off in someone else's house. far too intimate. talk about getting your feet under the table, ie taking over the place, behaving as if you own it/live there."

I wasn't allowed to take them off even in my grandparents' house when I was staying there.

Yes, exactly this. We still feel like this tbh except when we visit a friend in Canada and we want to avoid treading snow on to their lovely wooden floors. We have hard floors throughout our own home, and we have dogs, so we change from outdoor shoes to chewed slippers normally.

We are shoes on and only once in decades did someone else walk mud in and even so it was a moments hoover action to clear it up!

I'd never ask my visitors to remove shoes, never.

Life is too short to be spent stressing over a floor.

• my family has vast diverse mixed fortunes from very jumble homes and to much grander, not once did we ever take our shoes off.

For me it's personal preference to take shoes off indoors. Just like some women like to remove their bra.

*To replace it with, “ pardon” is fussy and unnecessary.

But if you say “what” to people who would consider it rude, that would be bad manners in a way. I would say, in that case, “ I am sorry, I didn’t quite hear you. What was it you said?”*

One word is fussy and unnecessary so replace it with a full sentence? I'm not getting the logic here I'm afraid.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread! 😁

But if you say “what” to people who would consider it rude, that would be bad manners in a way. I would say, in that case, “ I am sorry, I didn’t quite hear you. What was it you said?”

The U set claim this is 'wrong' for the same reason 'pardon' is...because you shouldn't apologise for not hearing someone. No apology is necessary.

Apparently they never say 'passed away/on' either, no euphemisms for them..they're much too straightforward and unpretentious!

I can't not not take my shoes off when I go inside someone's house. I didn't realise that this might be rude to some people until I read this thread .

I would never ask a visitor to take their shoes off though. But I find it weird that some people don't.

I agree with the change about shoes. I remember my parents buying a new carpet for the living room. They made the totally impractical choice of buying a cream carpet and mum was paranoid about getting dirt trodden on it so if friends came round I had to ask them to take their shoes off. It felt so embarrassing to say that to people because it wasn't a thing you ever asked anyone. That would have been in the early 80s.

@RampantIvy

For me it's personal preference to take shoes off indoors. Just like some women like to remove their bra.

Those are not comparable. Your bra isn't potentially covered in dog piss or poo crumbs and you don't rub it on the carpet.

Shoes on or off and what v pardon aren't manners they are etiquette and class indicators.

'Pardon' was invented as a genteel Victorianism - by the aspirational middle classes. And the same could be said of the 'shoes off' convention in the 1980s.

No-one brought up as U would dream of doing either. We have the original stone floors in our 18th century farmhouse - asking people to take shoes off would be mad. But I don't judge others who have learned different conventions.

Those are not comparable. Your bra isn't potentially covered in dog piss or poo crumbs and you don't rub it on the carpet.

In terms of comfort they are. However, we also remove outdoor footwear for cleanliness reasons as well, as our house is mainly carpeted.

I always thought the no white at weddings was not to do with confusion, but so there was no risk of upstaging the bride.

My DH holds his knife and fork the "wrong" way round. He is left handed though.

I would never go into someone’s house and take my shoes off. Exposing your feet, socks to someone? Socks are a type of underwear, really. I think that’s very rude - like you’re making yourself too comfortable. It’d be like sitting with your feet up on the sofa. If you’re asked to take your shoes off, that’s a different matter - though I do think it lacks etiquette for the host to say so.

The shoes-off thing really took off (in London at least) in a big way about fifteen years ago, and I never liked it. I do put on "indoor" shoes at home (although DH refuses to), but I always hated getting dresed up to go to a nice dinner/drinks party, complete with high heels/nice shoes which compliment your dress or whatever, and then everyone standing around in socks/stockings/bare feet. It seemed to have eased off in recent years.