Does it make someone a LGBTQ ally if they wear the pride lanyard but object when a transgender person uses their restroom ?

[thecatmother]

In my workplace we are very open and inclusive and many colleagues chose to wear their IDs on the Pride lanyards and are very active participants in all the Pride related events.
So far so peaceful, or so I thought, we had a new colleague joining recently, it is a lady who is transitioning from being born a man. She is very polite and just gets on with her work and day. I wasn't surprised to see her using the Ladies, unfortunately a number of my colleagues have formed an opinion about that. The management has been supporting the new colleague, and they held "conversations " with the complaining parties.
However, those people are still wearing their Pride lanyards, I can't get my head around that. The lanyards are purely on volunteer basis, we have generic ones. I generally wonder whether they actually realise that being an ally is not about getting drunk on Pride , but actually to be supportive to the people of LGBTQ.

@masterstef

My very clumsy point is having someone who presents as a stereotypical male in the female toilet is probably more upsetting to those who do not want males in the toilet than having someone who looks like a stereotypical female.

Agree not all men/women however they identify look a certain way.

[quote FelicityBeedle]@Aroundtheworldin80moves
A woman who is triggered by a tattoo won’t call for tattooed women to be banned from changing rooms, a woman who is triggered by self harm scars won’t call for people with those to be banned. Both of those examples are considerably more common as well. I am deeply sorry that it happens to you but it is your responsibility to avoid environments where you can be triggered, in this case by changing in a toilet cubicle or similar.[/quote]
Actually that isn’t true. Fortunately we have a legal right to single sex facilities. It’s men, and not the tattooed or the scarred, who were deemed such a risk to women that we need our own spaces, protected by law.

@annacondom

I do feel a bit sorry for people like your colleague. She wants to fit in, keeps her head down, wants to be a woman. Doesn't want to use the blokes' loo, and to my mind, shouldn't have to. If I were her colleague it may make me feel uncomfortable, but what exactly would I have to fear from this person?

Are you ok with having all men in a single sex public toilet? Say, the bloke at the desk next to you? It’s not implying they’re a threat, it’s saying females are completely entitled to maintain single sex spaces. As the law allows.

(If I was of the lanyard-wearing type) How would I show I am an LGB ally but don't buy into the T+ impact on women's rights? This post would suggest that the rainbow is not for me but I take it if I wore some sort of symbol to show support of the LGB I would be on the receiving end of the sort of attack that the LGB Alliance sustained?

I'd like to know this too. DS2 is 'LGB' (not all 3 obviously) but he doesn't think the T should be included in the same group as its a totally different thing. I have to say that I'm inclined to agree with him.
So what flag could I wear (if I felt the urge) to support him?
I thought the rainbow was LGB and the rainbow plus pale pink and blue was the LGBT. But it seems not.

I actually do have a rainbow lanyard. But it's because I like rainbows

I don’t personally have a problem with trans women in female toilets. However we have not all lived the same lives and I can appreciate there are women who would not be comfortable with this. I don’t see why the well being of one group of people should be sacrificed (without consultation )for the benefit of another person. The comparison with tattoos or other inanimate things just doesn’t wash since no person was ever injured by a tattoo. Perhaps there’s an option of male only, female only and mixed toilets to ensure all parties feel safe.

I used to wear one at my old work. I went along to the industry LBGT+ events as an ally with the group from work.

I would not wear rainbow lanyard now as the LGBT things seem now to be only about the T. And I seriously disagree with the aims of the more vigorous activists. Who seem to have managed to get an awful lot of really major stuff changed (prisons, stats etc) so quietly that the general public still mainly have no idea what has gone on.

On the other part- the room where I rest is my bedroom so yes I would be extremely surprised to find a random work colleague in there!

[quote Sally872]@masterstef

My very clumsy point is having someone who presents as a stereotypical male in the female toilet is probably more upsetting to those who do not want males in the toilet than having someone who looks like a stereotypical female.

Agree not all men/women however they identify look a certain way.[/quote]
It's really offensive to say gender identity is about stereotypes. I genuinely don't care if any female in the female toilets is tall or has facial hair or whatever visual cues you think indicate maleness.

[quote FelicityBeedle]@Aroundtheworldin80moves
A woman who is triggered by a tattoo won’t call for tattooed women to be banned from changing rooms, a woman who is triggered by self harm scars won’t call for people with those to be banned. Both of those examples are considerably more common as well. I am deeply sorry that it happens to you but it is your responsibility to avoid environments where you can be triggered, in this case by changing in a toilet cubicle or similar.[/quote]
Wait... what... are you for real?
So because I was sexually abused as a child and have CPTSD as a result, which could be triggered by a male bodied person getting naked near me when im not expecting it, I should change in the toilets???
Fucking hell. You'll be telling me it was my fault next !

Wow. Say no more FelicityBeedle. Disgusting comment 🙄

[quote FelicityBeedle]@HermioneWeasley In this case it seems to be a woman daring to use a (presumably cubicled) bathroom. Why don’t you care about this woman’s safety in having to use the men’s toilets? Also don’t call someone people who identify (and are!) women male, it’s rude and I don’t believe MNHQ approve either[/quote]
Why do you think a transwoman would be unsafe in the men’s loos?

[quote FelicityBeedle]@HermioneWeasley In this case it seems to be a woman daring to use a (presumably cubicled) bathroom. Why don’t you care about this woman’s safety in having to use the men’s toilets? Also don’t call someone people who identify (and are!) women male, it’s rude and I don’t believe MNHQ approve either[/quote]
Why would they be unsafe in the men’s toilets @FelicityBeedle and @dandelionwoman?

I'm shocked to my core by the flippant comparison with tattoos.

Maybe look at this poster and have a think.

@exLtEveDallas

Besides nobody, particularly trans people, flaunts their genitalia in changing rooms

Except...

You forgot to include the delightful comments that person posted under the photo...

[quote FelicityBeedle]@Aroundtheworldin80moves
A woman who is triggered by a tattoo won’t call for tattooed women to be banned from changing rooms, a woman who is triggered by self harm scars won’t call for people with those to be banned. Both of those examples are considerably more common as well. I am deeply sorry that it happens to you but it is your responsibility to avoid environments where you can be triggered, in this case by changing in a toilet cubicle or similar.[/quote]
Tattoos don’t rape

A trans woman is a woman

No, trans women are trans women (that's why you have trans there, to differentiate from women who are actually adult human females).

If a biscuit gets deleted why is it still there as an option or are some topics treated differently to others?
If you want trans women and women to both have their needs met you have to recognise that they are not the same. Single sex spaces should be provided for privacy and dignity and so womens needs can be met
A gender free toilet could be provided for those who identify as a gender

For those who have said MN is v transphobic etc.

I'd be really interested to know whether you support all of the changes that have come about to date?

I get the bogs thing not a big deal for many.

But do you support convicted rapists going to prison with women?

Do you support the Scottish thing about rape victims being able to choose the gender of their examiner, not the sex?

How do you feel about transwomen winning prizes set aside for women, being consulted on women's issues, being included in female stats for pay gap. That sort of thing.

What are your thoughts on eg pips b or the police officer who has 2 warrant cards, one for each sex (and what that might mean in practice for things where same sex officers are supposed to do whatever it is)?

All that sort of stuff.

I just can't understand why women would support all that.

I can understand if it's ok for eg bogs, changing that sort of thing (although I don't agree).

But do you have a line?

Because when the answer is just everyone's transphobic my assumption is that you feel that self ID should be how it works, twaw and TMAM, and they should be treated as identical to a female/ male person in every aspect of life.

I genuinely want to understand this because I just do not get it.

I don’t have PTSD and don’t particularly want to see strange men’s bits. I also wouldn’t have a problem with sharing a toilet with a respectful trans woman but I wouldn’t dare to tell any woman who did have a problem with it to take responsibility for her own trauma and go elsewhere. Outrageous.

@FelicityBeedle
Jesus fucking Christ! Do you actually believe what you wrote?
It’s the victim’s responsibility to avoid being triggered?
I really hope you are a troll.

Is there a special lanyard to support women's sex based rights ?

@masterstef

I support trans using the toilet/space that is best for them. I am not saying anything else for fear of causing offense.

I feel deep sympathy for the trans women who have done everything to blend in with what I think most of us would regard as womanhood. Men who really feel they would find more happiness living as a woman. Who have undergone therapy, hormone and medical procedures. Who have lived as a woman for years, and have registered themselves as female.

You know, the stuff you might expect a person to do if they were so convinced they were in the wrong body. It must be really hard trying to 'live a lie', if you perceive your sex to be at variance to your gender.

Yes, by 'medical procedures, I do mean genital surgery. I, personally, wouldn't have a big issue with such a person using a female WC, at work. I'm conflicted about women's prisons/refuges for such a trans woman. But am aware the concept of a 'third space' is loudly condemned by the Activists. They want the girls' bogs, thanks.

However, once you're in the realms of Self-ID, that can fuck the fuck off.

Wait... what... are you for real?
So because I was sexually abused as a child and have CPTSD as a result, which could be triggered by a male bodied person getting naked near me when im not expecting it, I should change in the toilets???
Fucking hell. You'll be telling me it was my fault next

So sorry phyllis 💐 it was a dreadful thing for that poster to say

@Carriemac

Is there a special lanyard to support women's sex based rights ?

Yes. I believe it's the colour of literal violets.

With a twist of white and green.

Well fucking hell at felicity needle. I mean you get that these are real people you're taking to, I assume?

What the hell do you think you're playing at.