Does it make someone a LGBTQ ally if they wear the pride lanyard but object when a transgender person uses their restroom ?

[thecatmother]

In my workplace we are very open and inclusive and many colleagues chose to wear their IDs on the Pride lanyards and are very active participants in all the Pride related events.
So far so peaceful, or so I thought, we had a new colleague joining recently, it is a lady who is transitioning from being born a man. She is very polite and just gets on with her work and day. I wasn't surprised to see her using the Ladies, unfortunately a number of my colleagues have formed an opinion about that. The management has been supporting the new colleague, and they held "conversations " with the complaining parties.
However, those people are still wearing their Pride lanyards, I can't get my head around that. The lanyards are purely on volunteer basis, we have generic ones. I generally wonder whether they actually realise that being an ally is not about getting drunk on Pride , but actually to be supportive to the people of LGBTQ.

What a shame.

I do give the benefit of the doubt. I mean I went off on one about the tits and cunts thing but apology ok.

Thing is I want to understand, at least try to. Even if I disagree.

In the end though yet again. Push comes to shove and the response is yet again. In the end. It's not acceptable to say no, to argue.

All my life with men. In real life I mean. Even the lovely ones who are kind to their families etc. Will at some point let slip something that says it all about their most deep down view of women. Usually it boils down to how dare you disagree. How dare you stand up to me. How dare you not back down. Patriarchy in its most basic form.

Everything is set up to prioritise men. To further them, give them the benefit of the doubt, hand wave away the things they do even if they're appalling.

I grew up in London in the 80s. The amount of creepy/ intimidating/ scary behaviour from men to schoolgirls was so much it was every day.

I KNOW there are creepy weird pervy men everywhere. Most women do.

Men simply don't care. I can go into it more but the age I've reached I know for a fact that

The minority of men and older boys who do or have carried out sexually motivated acts against girls/ women, a lot of it illegal, some of it just scary/ humiliating. Is a large minority.

The vast majority of men, including the 'nice' ones. Do not give one single toss. Poor choice of word there maybe!

I talk to all sorts of people and people talk to me. I just seem not judgemental or something. Men seem to accept me as one of them and let their guard down.

And my conclusion is they just don't care at all. Not interested.

And that's why we are in the position we are with rapists in women's prisons, organised grooming gangs still abusing vulnerable girls, hand wringing over girls being sexually assaulted in schools (nothing will happen). Etc etc.

The only thing that will work is if women- a very large proportion of us- don't just say no but cause trouble. Nothing else will work.

Carousel

Easy

Women are empty shells who are whatever men say we are. Always have been.

If a male person feels like a woman inside. And that is reflected in them presenting in a standard masculine way, and having standard male biology. They are a woman if they say so. Because we are whatever men say we are. No more. No less.

And the ones who don't toe the line are witches.

That's it in essence.

@Snugglepumpkin

I 100% support LGB rights & would defend them if required.

I 100% do not support any of the other letters or think they have anything in common with LGB.

I 0% support the idea of men in the womens toilets.

Same. Also I 0% support the idea of stupid lanyards.

[quote Carouselfish]@masterstef wait, gender identity isn't based on stereotypes? Please explain what it is based on? Not stereotypical roles, appearance, interests, traits or feelings. What then? What IS the new definition of gender if it's nothing to do with these things? [/quote]
You've lost me - are you quoting something I've posted? Could you use the quote function/copy + bold so I can see the context? Is it possible I'm quoting the OP - it's hard to keep track of the thread in such a long... thread.

@masterstef sorry, phone makes it hard to quote. But yes, there was a post that said it was offensive to say gender ID was anything to do with stereotypes. This is a new minefield to traverse if so.

@DetroitInTheCity

Erikrie, I hear you. I am not in the mood for backing down, I'm afraid.

Same here, my ship of kindness sailed a long time ago and it's not returning any time soon and no I'm not going to say or feel sorry about that.

@JustSomeDude123 so you won't read anyone else's view, but feel absolutely free to plop your own opinions in on page 31?

Why don't you support lesbians and bisexual women who want single-sex spaces? Doesn't that make you, in your own analogy, just like a racist?

Or why don't you come here and have an honest conversation instead of just squeezing out tired tropes?

Most people don't know about any of that.

They have had some talks at work. Have gay colleagues (or more rarely lesbian colleagues). They are not making a stand about self ID etc. They don't know about any of that.

Some dude I'm also a bit confused by your post.

You seem to be taking only about women. What do you think of men who wear these lanyards? Why are you talking solely about women?

I'm also interested to know why you think women in a workplace would do clutching when a colleague comes into the room. Specifically why they would have taken their handbags to a work meeting. And why they would dig around in it to find their purse and clutch it (? strange turn of phrase) when a colleague walks in.

Have I missed something?

You don't understand why I am so angry? No? That is because you are a man with male privilege, and I am a woman who can't even find a public bathroom that is free of dudes in dresses wanking and preening. I am a woman in a shelter that has to listen to men's abuses, and be intimidated by the males in the shelter, because it is not allowed to keep them out of shelters - there is no single sex shelter provision. I am angry because men keep on patronizing me and talking down to me, and trying to edit my pain and my emotions...and then ASK WHY I AM ANGRY. I am DUE MY ANGER, BUDDY. I am angry because I am here because a man destroyed my life and my health with his fists, and I couldn't even continue to live how I wanted to live because the virus insisted I come inside to a city shelter environment.
Seriously, get a grip on reality - you are not some righteous male to be patted on the head and indulged and you sure as shit ain't gonna talk down to me.

How dare you conflate the need for single sex spaces with racism. Totally disingenuous, and disgustingly wrong.

L P

@NiceGerbil

Carousel

Easy

Women are empty shells who are whatever men say we are. Always have been.

If a male person feels like a woman inside. And that is reflected in them presenting in a standard masculine way, and having standard male biology. They are a woman if they say so. Because we are whatever men say we are. No more. No less.

And the ones who don't toe the line are witches.

That's it in essence.

Exactly, and what did they do to witches? Burn them, like the 'die in a grease fire' TRA lovely threat to women. Interesting that fire is apparently the earliest weapon isn't it.

DetroitInTheCity

And lo! The women’s bathroom flooded and women overcame their nervousness about using the men’s “restrooms”. Avoiding the urinals they scurried to the stalls but whilst at the basins they dared to look up and in doing so looked into the eyes of the men who were also doing so.

Oh for pete's sake. The issue is really not gazing into the eyes of men enough, step away from the red bull.

As they did so their misgivings fell away

And presumably their traumas and all memories of them, their disabilities, their faiths, their cultures..... where is this magic mind erasing toilet? Apparently there's an instant cure now for PTSD!

- they realised that their concerns about loss of safety, privacy, dignity and men masturbating in female toilets and uploading it to porn sites were all unfounded,

Sigh. Denying facts, evidence and women's voices really doesn't vanish them. You're saying this in the fact of women on this thread telling you their personal experiences and repeating to them that they just didn't happen. It would be lovely if this land of make believe existed, but the fact is that women are people too and have incompatible issues with a lovely no label/no sex utopia. Adding third spaces that are unisex would work though.

Instead, locking gazes with those they had erstwhile sought to repel, through their shared use of the automatic soap dispenser, they understood that men, woman, all those labels were unimportant, everyone there just wanted to pee

Except the women who can't access mixed sex spaces, who now can't pee at all. Or use refuges. Or stay on hospital wards. Or go to women's groups. Or swim. Or access changing rooms. Inclusion involves eight other protected characteristics, and people who are all as equally important.

Bit less unicorns and rainbows and a bit more basic reality needed here.

I think nolongers' story was irony.

didnt read but off the title. dont claim to be an lgbt ally if you arent okay with a trans dude using the mens restroom or trans woman using the female restroom.

I support LGB. I even support some, but certainly not all, transwoman. I never will have support for any individual or organisation who doesn't give a shit about women's safeguards. And I don't support the right of any biological male to women's sex segregated spaces.

its just obnoxious and is like saying "im not racist" but clenching your purse when a black person comes in the room

You sound obnoxious. Another man not bothering to read the thread but still thinks women need his manly opinion. We don't. And stop being a racist to further your agenda. It's repulsive.

Oh dear...

@SunnydaleClassProtector99

I think nolongers' story was irony.

Same

But who knows any more 😀

I think nolongers' story was irony

I thought it was obvious

Is the twist no one's a tra but it's all an ironic joke?

I think nolongers' story was irony

I seriously can't tell any more!

It looked liked irony to me. No one would write that in seriousness would they. 🤭 Ok, I take that back, they probably would.