Does it make someone a LGBTQ ally if they wear the pride lanyard but object when a transgender person uses their restroom ?

[thecatmother]

In my workplace we are very open and inclusive and many colleagues chose to wear their IDs on the Pride lanyards and are very active participants in all the Pride related events.
So far so peaceful, or so I thought, we had a new colleague joining recently, it is a lady who is transitioning from being born a man. She is very polite and just gets on with her work and day. I wasn't surprised to see her using the Ladies, unfortunately a number of my colleagues have formed an opinion about that. The management has been supporting the new colleague, and they held "conversations " with the complaining parties.
However, those people are still wearing their Pride lanyards, I can't get my head around that. The lanyards are purely on volunteer basis, we have generic ones. I generally wonder whether they actually realise that being an ally is not about getting drunk on Pride , but actually to be supportive to the people of LGBTQ.

Thanks @RufustheBadgeringReindeer. Sadly I've seen similar comments on here far too often.

I guess the positive of that is that I've started talking about the abuse. Even though it's only anonymously on here. I'm sure that's a good thing from a therapy perspective.

@Sally872

I think having someone who is a trans man in a female toilet would be more upsetting to someone who needs a female space than having a trans women in the toilet.

Also perhaps real men will claim to be trans men to use the female toilets and would be even worse a situation for those trying to protect female spaces.

Real men?. What an incredibly interesting, and telling, Freudian slip.

Let's not report that tattoo comment eh.

It's a view I've seen before so although I'd like to think it's not in good faith, I wouldn't put money on it. Let people read this stuff.

I’m very confused about what goes on in some staff toilets from the talk on this thread.

Where I work you go into a cubicle (alone) do you business, right yourself again and the go out and wash your hands. I can’t even remember the last eye contact I made with another person in the work loo (usually there’s nobody else in there at the same time). Never mind seeing a nobody else’s ‘bits’.

Clearly I’m in the minority here but I thought that was a pretty normal work place toileting experience.

I think it’s wrong to assume somebody else is a sexual predator just because they’re transitioning. Don’t get me wrong women’s rights being degraded is an issue but I think this is a whole other to some of the others mentioned by a PP such as trans people in female prisons and patients being comfortable with the professionals providing intimate examinations.

Surely a unisex single toilet is the way forward, go in do your business and leave.

Unbelievable misogyny from some posters.

Bisexual here who supports LBG and not the T. Biological men do not belong in women's toilets. It's very simple. Toilets are segregated by sex not gender. You know this because there aren't special toilets for people who are demigender, tetrisgender and so on. Humans beings cannot change sex, so no biological males in women's toilets. We have a fucking right to that.

If a biscuit gets deleted why is it still there as an optionconfused or are some topics treated differently to others?

Some topics are treated differently to others

@dandelionwoman

Why don’t you care about this woman’s safety in having to use the men’s toilets? This ^ agree *@FelicityBeedle*

If “this woman” is not safe in the men’s toilets, why is it safe for women to have to share their toilets with males?

Dentons

Maybe enough people don't want to use the ridiculous term 'cis' to differentiate themselves from 'trans' as if both are subsets of the same thing?

Newsflash: they're not.

@justsaymaybe

Nothing but complete capitulation is enough

Spot on. Let's say the transwomen are allowed in the ladies' loo, and a new 'women only' loo is set up for women who cannot/won't share with males who identify as women. What's the first thing that would happen? The transwomen would say, "But we ARE women - we want to be allowed in THAT one, too!"

No compromise is possible.

I think it’s wrong to assume somebody else is a sexual predator just because they’re transitioning

Has anyone said that?

@dentons actually someone who wants to be inclusive but slipped up. Then apologised having realised the mistake less than a minute later.

We're talking about a workplace. Do men beat people up in the work bogs? They'd get sacked. Come on.

As for would I feel comfy in the gents at work, yes. Well I mean I wouldn't feel at risk.

However in my new job I admit pre covid I did start checking for cameras. It's 95% blokes. One got sacked for sexual misconduct. And I read about South Korea in the news and got a bit paranoid.

Thing is that when it comes to being a creepy perve/ voyeur / etc then it's almost entirely the domain of men.

There is also the privacy issue. All my workplaces women have got changed in the ladies. For a night out/ event/ Xmas party etc. If not many cubicles then in the main bit.

Do creepy men have multiple incentives to get into the ladies? Yes. And if they can no questions asked, why on earth wouldn't they?

[quote Sally872]@dentons actually someone who wants to be inclusive but slipped up. Then apologised having realised the mistake less than a minute later.[/quote]
Freudian slip

Its very very difficult to find the right words sometimes

@MrsWooster

Perhaps your management should be looking at providing third spaces for mixed sex use, then your T colleague could have a place where they are able to avoid confronting their dysphoria in the gents, and the women in your office can continue to have their legally assured single sex spaces

I agree. I was about to post that it's management's job to make sure all staff are OK. Third space is the way to go.

I feel that toilets should be totally individual from now on - complete with washbasin. Clearly that is not possible where toilets already exist - I don't think there should be shared toilets ie male an female and therefore think that I would prefer having male and female toilets only used by male and females only.
On the note of lanyards and other badges etc I don't think they have a place at work - its the same for political badges or indeed other groups.

'Unisex toilets are the way to go'

Oh god , no.

Piss all over the seat? The floor? The surefire knowledge that hands haven't been washed since dicks were fondled?

Note: male anatomy allows them to stand back and aim in the general direction, from a safe distance. Female anatomy requires a careful mince across the floor, undress while gathering all clothes into a ball, then the knee wobbling hover over the wee splattered seat.

Why should we have to do that because there might be 0.00005% of your male workmates who feel like a woman?

Once again, women giving away rights for men.

I think it’s wrong to assume somebody else is a sexual predator just because they’re transitioning. Don’t get me wrong women’s rights being degraded is an issue but I think this is a whole other to some of the others mentioned by a PP such as trans people in female prisons and patients being comfortable with the professionals providing intimate examinations.

I don’t think that my male colleagues are sexual predators, but I wouldn’t want to share the kind of toilet facilities that we have at work with them (I.e. gaps under and above each cubicle, you can hear people dealing with sanitary pads, mooncups, as well as all the other stuff, etc), and nor would they me.

'Where I work you go into a cubicle (alone) do you business, right yourself again and the go out and wash your hands. I can’t even remember the last eye contact I made with another person in the work loo (usually there’s nobody else in there at the same time). Never mind seeing a nobody else’s ‘bits’.'

Different industries must have very different cultures. The no eye contact thing I know is true in gents but one in ladies at work they're used for

Changing
Nattering
Doing hair
Crying
Comforting someone crying
Vomiting when Pg (and asking if ok if you hear it and are worried)
Make up
Hair
Clothes adjustment
Period discussion
Discussion about what happened at the Xmas party
Discussion about the bloke your friend in accounts fancies
Etc etc etc etc

Even in pubs and clubs it's often pretty pally in there IME once the night is wearing on

[quote Sally872]@masterstef

I support trans using the toilet/space that is best for them. I am not saying anything else for fear of causing offense.[/quote]
But in the example of prisons, a trans man might want to be in a female-sex prison (ie mixed gender identities) and the trans woman might want to be in a female-gender prison (ie mixed sex). Only one would be able to get what they feel is best for themselves because the presence of the opposite sex stops a space being single-sex, and the presence of the opposite gender identity stops that space being single-gender.

Who should 'win' here where they are in conflict?

I wonder how many trans men fight for their right to be sent to a men's prison....🤔

It would be perfectly possible for a lesbian woman to wear her pride lanyard and be uncomfortable with sharing the toilets with a male.

However in my new job I admit pre covid I did start checking for cameras. It's 95% blokes. One got sacked for sexual misconduct. And I read about South Korea in the news and got a bit paranoid.

I’m glad it’s not just me who does this. I’m similarly paranoid about cameras and have been known to check for them in the work loos.

Note: male anatomy allows them to stand back and aim in the general direction, from a safe distance. Female anatomy requires a careful mince across the floor, undress while gathering all clothes into a ball, then the knee wobbling hover over the wee splattered seat

You can’t hover if you need to deal with a menstrual cup (or, at least, I can). This, in particular, is why I detest the piss-soaked unisex loos.

can’t, not can.

I have worked with 2 men sacked for sexual misconduct in my life. Also 6 young men given final warning for sharing porn.

Women don't want male people in our spaces. We're extremely cautious of them for a reason. Social norms also teach us that certain stuff you do separately.

Women have no idea whatsoever if male work colleagues are dodgy or not. They may seem very nice but many women have learnt that sometimes they really aren't.

And if the advice is to go wherever (non binary) which is being pushed and is in place at many universities etc. Then it's a free for all isn't it. And it is anyway- internal gender id is not linked to presentation. Women wear trousers and shirts and have short hair. The argument is that policing what women look like is awful. (Which it is- and something feminists have fought for ages. To have it thrown back at us as s reason not to object to a male person who presents in a masculine way in the ladies is just shitty but there you have it).

@MasterStef I think prisons and likely some other situations would have to be a separate consideration.

In the OP regarding colleague using female toilet I believe she should use the female toilet.