Does it make someone a LGBTQ ally if they wear the pride lanyard but object when a transgender person uses their restroom ?

[thecatmother]

In my workplace we are very open and inclusive and many colleagues chose to wear their IDs on the Pride lanyards and are very active participants in all the Pride related events.
So far so peaceful, or so I thought, we had a new colleague joining recently, it is a lady who is transitioning from being born a man. She is very polite and just gets on with her work and day. I wasn't surprised to see her using the Ladies, unfortunately a number of my colleagues have formed an opinion about that. The management has been supporting the new colleague, and they held "conversations " with the complaining parties.
However, those people are still wearing their Pride lanyards, I can't get my head around that. The lanyards are purely on volunteer basis, we have generic ones. I generally wonder whether they actually realise that being an ally is not about getting drunk on Pride , but actually to be supportive to the people of LGBTQ.

I have the solution.

From today let's change ALL Men's toilets into "Mixed Sex".

Surely this would be a solution for every problem? Who would complain indeed?

There is a huge difference between young men following a fashion trend which involved wearing blouses and make up and actually going out dressed and trying to "be" a girl.

Are you sure you were around in the 80s. A little bit more than just wearing make up and a blouse dude. Sometimes it was quite different to tell the difference.

So tell me. What's the difference between them then and the men declaring that they are women now? Both wearing the same / similar 'female' clothes and make up. What separates them? Anything?

@NotBadConsidering

That Twitter thread is absolutely grim.

I have a question for anyone who says “I don’t care, they can pee next to me!”

You’re alone in the female toilets, in a fairly quiet place with not many people around. As you leave, a 10 year old girl enters the toilets. She is soon followed by an adult male. Do you:

a) double back to make sure the girl is safe or
b) assume the male identifies as a woman and do nothing?

That’s a really good question.

@NotBadConsidering

That Twitter thread is absolutely grim.

I have a question for anyone who says “I don’t care, they can pee next to me!”

You’re alone in the female toilets, in a fairly quiet place with not many people around. As you leave, a 10 year old girl enters the toilets. She is soon followed by an adult male. Do you:

a) double back to make sure the girl is safe or
b) assume the male identifies as a woman and do nothing?

It’s an absolute no-brainier. I go back and stay there until the girl leaves, or I check to see who’s supposed to be keeping an eye on her and tell them that the girl is on her own and there’s a man in there too.

I hope someone would do this for my DDs too.

It’s a no-brainier for most of us on here, but I would like to see how the “you can pee next to me” people would answer that question.

Supporting LGBTQ doesn’t mean you’re happy to not feel strongly about safe spaces for women. I happily support LGBQ people, but I will not give up my right to use women only spaces.

@GCAcademic

It’s a no-brainier for most of us on here, but I would like to see how the “you can pee next to me” people would answer that question.

They would just say trans women are women no debate and refuse to consider it further.

@NiceGerbil

Nonmaquille I looked at the Twitter thing.

I mean are any of the women on here surprised?

Women know that there are a very large amount of creepy men around.

Women know that for whatever reason plenty of men get their kicks from really odd stuff in a way that women in general don't. I'm heterosexual. I have no inclination whatsoever to spy on men getting changed, spycam their bogs so I can see them taking a piss or a shit, wear or steal blokes undies for sexual kicks, expose myself to schoolboys etc etc. The crime stats confirm that when it comes to weirdly creepy pervy behaviour it's overwhelmingly men. Like, almost always.

So I'm not surprised that given the opportunity there will be no small number of men who will be keen to sit in a cubicle and have a loud wank when there is a woman or girl in the next cubicle.

I read ages ago a fetishy thing about putting semen on the seat, door lock etc so women will likely come (no pun intended!) into contact with it.

Again not surprised.

Men don't like to hear this stuff not interested. Metoo it was all why didn't you say anything? We've been banging on about it for decades. They don't want to know.

And just remembered nspcc man. Rubber fetishised. Filmed himself wanking in the bog. Talked about having come and piss in his rubber pants for the day.

Apparently saying this was not on was homophobic. And the nspcc said you're bigots don't pick on this poor chap.

Imagine having meetings with a colleague when you know he likes to work with piss and come in his rubber pants. How is that ok?

But yeah. Right wing fuddy duddy bigoted women.

And didn't the gay rights movement work really hard to get rid of the idea that gay men were perves? So how does saying this is not on is homophobia help gay men?

Yes, I remember the NSPCC fetish man. I was horrified, and even more so by the response from the charity.

I know there are creepy men around - we’ve ALL sadly been victims of them one way or another, and now my own DDs are teenagers, my creep radar is very very sensitive to these creatures - but those clips on that Twitter thread (and just a couple were more than I could tolerate) were a whole new level of repulsive for me. I had no idea that it could be this bad. And I agree with a PP - there are men who actually view this, too???

No doubt some wokey blokey would accuse me of “kink shaming” - ie make ME the bad person - but as I have read on here many times: some people are so open minded, their brains are falling out.

If I caught a man doing this in a female single sex space, I can’t begin to say what I would want to do to him.

*One of the many things that really pisses me off with this opening up of female single sex toilets, etc., is that when someone such assoulmanor the TW from the opening post says they feel threatened and too frightened to use the male toilets the reaction isOh poor you, how terrible, there, there, of course you shouldn't have to be frightenedyet when a woman says I don't want to/can't use toilets unless they are unequivocally single sex as I have been a victim of abuse by men the reaction isfuck off with your transphobia you bigot, just get over your trauma, stop weaponising your trauma.

Men - you must be kept safe, your feelings must be catered for.
Women - suck it up, no-one gives a toss about your safety or feelings, there aremento consider.

Same shit, different day.

I absolutely agree.*

This is absolutely it, one group its 'horrific and what can be change for you' if they say they are scared and threatened other group its 'fuck off and die, how dare you, you should be re-educated, fired, ostracised you bigot'.

Crazy when support for the T can only mean handing over all your rights and safeguards to them. And putting yourself at risk in the process. Anything less than that (in TRAs eyes) is not enough and means you are a bigoted terf. If that's the case, I'll just take the name calling.

@Erikrie

Crazy when support for the T can only mean handing over all your rights and safeguards to them. And putting yourself at risk in the process. Anything less than that (in TRAs eyes) is not enough and means you are a bigoted terf. If that's the case, I'll just take the name calling.

Excellently put

The @thecatmother said "How many people on this thread have suffered a sexual offense from a transgender woman?*

I have been sexually assaulted by men twice. I have no way of knowing if these people were trans as there is no way of knowing how they identify.

There is a huge difference between young men following a fashion trend which involved wearing blouses and make up and actually going out dressed and trying to "be" a girl. And yet you didn't acknowledge my comment about transvestite friends - the terminlology of the day that covered anyone not just following that fashion trend.

As a generation we had gender, patriarchy and sex based discrimination in our sights on a daily basis. Many posting here are women who lived through that time, were gender bending, love/d equally gender bending men and women. We are the women who REALLY do understand how all of this gender ideology SHOULD be dismissed. Because in our early adulthood we dealt with it head on!

It's a pity you didn't ask as I wanted to explain that one has a fetish, still indulges now, as a long married, father of 3, man. The other went through the long and painful medical process of transitioning. I was his friend and support back then and her friend now! Both wore dresses, wanted to 'be a girl' some or all of the time. Neither used the female loos. Both did, and still do, acknowledge that they are male and dont have the right to do so.

The fully transitioned transwomen nowadays searches out unisex spaces as much as possible and still, now in her late 50s, still feels apologetic if she 'has' to use a single sex facility. She is one of the many for whom transactivism has caused many issues, mostly that she is aware that many women who used to nod her through are now looking directly at her and one will, some day soon, challenge her. Both of them will feel discomfort and some fear at that point.

Square that circle any way you want but DO NOT try telling women that they are the safe option for any man and so must be accommodating.

Turn round and demand your fellow males do the accommodating. You'll find many of us 'TERFS' stood alongside you in support.

I am fully supportive of being kind and accommodating to any truly transgender person. After all, there aren’t that many so fairly unlikely to be in a cubicle next to you.

BUT this self-Id business - with what looks exactly like a man, beard ‘n all saying that today they feel like a woman and this entitled to enter women’s spaces is simply a pervert’s charter. No one can challenge or even look afraid of anyone - they will simply say they id as a woman.

I was at Gatwick a while back early in the morning and went to the loos - down a long corridor and they were deserted. Round the corner came a man. Now, i think he had actually made a mistake (easily done - I have walked into the gents on occasion!) but all the same I doubled back and waited till he came out. In the brave new world I would be a bigot if I did that, let alone point out he was in the ladies.

Detroit just wanted to say, I've read your posts, and I hear you.

And just remembered nspcc man. Rubber fetishised. Filmed himself wanking in the bog. Talked about having come and piss in his rubber pants for the day.

My question for that NSPCC man, never answered by his defenders (including, incredibly, the NSPCC CEO, who went on twitter to tell people to stop "bullying" him), was:

...what, exactly, is it about working in a charity for abused children that gets you so aroused you regularly masturbate in the toilets at work?

Not to mention about what is it, exactly, that's professional or appropriate and respectful to colleagues about enacting your personal sexual fetishes at work? That's surely the point to get a bit of professional help around boundaries and managing impulse control, or a slightly out of control sexual addiction. This is the thing; however you define and whatever flag you wish to celebrate standing under, it is still not ok to behave badly, to have very poor boundaries and to involve other non consenting people.

Detroit, always lovely to see you drop in to post

This should be posted under every thread that questions why women should have sex-segregated spaces.

It absolutely should, my stomach isn't strong enough to look at more than a couple of those.

Now, all those who support making women's toilets mixed sex and opening them up to men who do what is depicted in that thread come on here and justify why women and, especially, children should be subjected to that. Come on, let's hear it.

@ArcheryAnnie

And just remembered nspcc man. Rubber fetishised. Filmed himself wanking in the bog. Talked about having come and piss in his rubber pants for the day.

My question for that NSPCC man, never answered by his defenders (including, incredibly, the NSPCC CEO, who went on twitter to tell people to stop "bullying" him), was:

...what, exactly, is it about working in a charity for abused children that gets you so aroused you regularly masturbate in the toilets at work?

ArcheryAnnie someone posted on an thread in FWR rubber man's poor me whinge about it all. The words bringing your kink to work were in there as justification. Revolting.

@AlfonsoTheTerrible

The *@thecatmother said "How many people on this thread have suffered a sexual offense from a transgender woman?

I have been sexually assaulted by men twice. I have no way of knowing if these people were trans as there is no way of knowing how they identify.

That's the thing isn't. Also, I can't control if I react to a trans woman as if they're male, it's trauma not transphobia, I can't magic it away. I wish I could.

I do know trans woman, and honestly, if I saw them heading into the womens toilets I'd wait for them to come out before I went in.

I really couldn't give a damn about what body modifications or clothing choices people make as long as they are not forced to and are adults. Ok, so that's not strictly true, I am deeply concerned about the ease of transitioning for young traumatized people..so well..there you go...
That said, it is easy, neither I nor any other woman owe men anything as a group. We don't owe them validation of their kinks, participation in their kinks, we don't owe them our bathrooms nor our sports, nor any of our necessarily single sex spaces.
It's lovely seeing you all too. I really should find happier threads to post on instead of delurking to be grouchy!
I took a peek at the twitter grotesqueness. Expected, isn't it...

In a very ironic strike of fate the ladies restrooms flooded this morning. As we were left temporarily sans facilities everyone had to share the 🚹. Nobody minded, Nobody complained everyone just did their business.
There is a lot to be said for mixed facilities. Peace and joy to all, enjoy your weekend.

Nobody minded

Are you a mind reader?

There's a big difference, also, between people accepting a temporary emergency situation that can't be helped, and a long term arrangement that is imposed on them deliberately.

Also I notice you haven't addressed the cognitive dissonance between your "we needn't insult one another" post, and the posts where you did, in fact, insult women who disagreed with you.

Yeah you too. Enjoy your yarn, Catmother 🧶