Are you married to an investment banker and have kids?

[Lisbon83]

My husband is an investment banker at ED level and we recently had a baby.

I'm looking for advice from people in my position who get the hours they do and the particular stresses of the work. It's not 9-5 as we know and it's not possible to be 50/50 split on childcare during weekday evenings for example.

How did you manage family life, looking after yourself, baby etc without tearing your marriage apart? Night feeds, childcare, household chores, life admin, weekends, time for ourselves.. how to organise and any tips or ideas?

Pandemic has made it worse and harder to access outside help but hoping this will become easier soon.

@littlemissblue please don't describe yourself as "basically a single mum" and then in the next breath describe how your husband's earnings are "amazing".
It's so insulting. I'm a single mum and I'm earning all the money as well as doing everything else solo.

@korawick12345 - I did 15 years and then happily handed the baton over to DH. At that point, however, I could because my career and the fruits of it provided a large house in London. Even if, at that stage, DH had decided to switch to an in-house or Civil Service role (or been taken chronically ill), we could have relocated down the line by 10 miles and the equity released would have funded school fees for two children. But that was 25 years ago now.

To the poster who said, somewhat snarkily, the solution was to pay another woman minimum wage, may I respectfully point out that in the South East that tends not to happen. Our cleaner is on £14.00 and our gardener is on £12.50. However, I wouldn't overlook all the other things that are sub-contracted because we just don't have time: jet washing patios and drives, windows, car valeting, pond cleaning, major cutting/trimming of trees and hedges, and the one that always winds up MNet, the company who deliver and decorate the Christmas trees (which I think is the world's worst job - and if I do it they look wonky with unbalanced lights) none of the providers receives minimum wage. It may be different beyond the home counties.

At 60ish DH and I still work about 50hpw. We each continue to bring home 6 figures but not the heady heights of yesteryear. On that note I need to phone my mother and prepare for meetings next week.

kora spot on. It’s possible to retire at 40 of course, but is it desirable to most? When the carrot dangles there of a few more bonuses, and whilst many IBs are brilliant parents they are unlikely to find true contentment and fulfilment in village coffee mornings and nursery pick ups after a life time in the fast lane.
They tend to be by default driven, fiercely intelligent and need considerable challenges in life. My dh took a break thinking of long term retirement, he did a few years of ft hands on parenting, stacking dishwashers and other monotonous jobs that makes up the bulk of parenting and couldn’t get back to the city fast enough! It would have been a shame to see him wasted if I am honest.
So whilst I do know of a few IB that retired to a farm in Devon, or become chefs for their own restaurant after the crash of 2008. They are very few and far between. Most love the adrenalin and fast pace of IB. Not to mention the fact you can earn more in a year in IB, than an entire life time of working in most other jobs.
Do the maths and most choose to stay, as kora says usually also knee deep in financial commitments of the life style choices that creep up along the way, and dare I say it status.

It’s always about status and money in the end. There are plenty of other ways to challenge yourself that don’t involve working for others. Roses I am sure you are very happy as we are all different but I can think of so many many things that would be more interesting and fulfilling than continuing to work at 60 if one didn’t have to. Most of the very high earners I know have a great deal of their sense of self tied up in what they do rather than in who they are. You say your husband is a workaholic, I suspect he is a statusaholic as you can work incredibly hard at something purely for intellectual or personal reward but despite not needing the money he has chosen to continue that path. Like I said we are all different and this is not a criticism but I cannot bear this lie that banking, and to a lesser degree corporate law, tells itself, which is that people are doing it for the intellectual challenge rather than the money and status.

@korawick12345

The thing is, with one notable exception, they don’t retire at 40! They could, but at that point they often have two or more homes, children in Private school, have become used to luxury holidays and their want to keep working to maintain these things. In the main people in these jobs are very money motivated, otherwise they wouldn’t do it. There are many many intellectually rewarding careers out there that don’t pay the big bucks. If you are in IB it is likely that money is a big motivator and that doesn’t disappear at 40 so IME they don’t retire they want more and more. Also we have seen in this thread the idea that IB perpetuates that it is home to the brightest and the best! After 20 years being told how very special you are and how valuable you are in monetary terms, how likely is it that you are going to be happy doing the school run and pootling around at home!

this is exactly the issue. being city law and ex IB we try and live within our means. nice house but not luxury holidays and not a nice car etc. i don’t want to retire early but i also just don’t want to feel trapped long term. i value freedom more than most of my friends in the sector

good friend also lives in a standard terrace (in london) to keep mortgage costs down so can retire early.

but most of my other friends in IB/traders live way above their means long term and get used to their lifestyle. a good bonus and they buy a huge house with a huge mortgage, a very expensive car with high running costs, a rolex or an expensive bottle of wine they can only enjoy once.... money is what motivates them. even if they enjoy what they do they probably would be very happy to do something else from 45 onwards but no hope in hell. and the hours are hard if you’re in your 50s still doing it

@korawick12345 - I hear what you say but actually you have no idea what either of us now do or whether we are making a contribution to society or whether we have a responsibility to see certain things through for the sake of the jobs/careers of others.

I may be nearly 61 but I am not ready to stop yet and feel I have one more big job in me. I can see a transition to a portfolio of consultancy and voluntary over the next 2/3 years for me. DH will carry on almost certainly for the time being.

Like I said, we are all different. I have the same difficulty understanding people who win millions in the lottery and say they want to carry on doing their job. Personally I think life is so short and there is so much to see and do I cannot understand the mentality that says ‘ I wouldn’t know what to do with myself if I didn’t work’

"You don't sound cut out for it, I agree."

We can definitely agree on this 😂

[quote OhamIreally]@littlemissblue please don't describe yourself as "basically a single mum" and then in the next breath describe how your husband's earnings are "amazing".
It's so insulting. I'm a single mum and I'm earning all the money as well as doing everything else solo.[/quote]
As I've already explained that comment was relating to the fact that I was alone with the children. For your information the money wasn't good at all at the point I was alone with 3 very young kids, I couldn't afford to put them in childcare so i became a sahm.

He worked his way up the firm and now has a very good salary.

It's the usual thing of my hardship was harder than yours syndrome. Maybe you shouldn't always assume that you did?

Why do you imagine that children won’t have either parent around martha? Given that IB pays well, it is more likely, not less, to have a parent at home. Many industries need both parents to work!

I would give yourself time , it's sounds as if you are a new mum and it takes a while to get into a routine. It does get easier and you will find that time. My exdh wasn't an IB but ran has own business and worked abroad so a lot of the time it was just DS , I did get a cleaner and as someone said I joined a gym and that really helped

@provencegal

Why do you imagine that children won’t have either parent around martha? Given that IB pays well, it is more likely, not less, to have a parent at home. Many industries need both parents to work!

I think because the op and lots of the partners on this thread seem to also work full time themselves hence needing to buy in lots of support. Obviously if one parent doesn’t work it’s not a problem as they can run the household themselves, I would hope that no one would think that running a household as a SAHP is somehow a special challenge!

You see @korawick12345 - if I were to win the lottery I would definitely carry on working. I went back to work at 43 when dd was settled in reception because I was vice Chair of a local NHS Committee, Chair of the PTA, running Sunday School, writing a fund raising report for the local church, organising football club for 60 children, treasurer of a local group, and hearing readers at school. It got to the point where I was flat out and working for nothing. I have no doubt that when I retire similar will happen.

I hope the thread has been useful op, I wish I had been able to read something similar 18 years ago. It would have been very enlightening and helpful.

In conclusion most of us are saying if you are going for dual FT career keep the number of the children you have to a bare minimum. If you are wanting lots of children, then ship in lots of help and enjoy it. It is hard to do both in the medium to long term.
You can make it work in a way that suits you and your family, and the benefits are definitely there especially later in life. The other option might be to have more children towards the end of dh's career, and you can both enjoy it then.

kora Lots of help is needed whether you are SAHP or not, because you can not rely on dh to do anything during the week as they are already doing 13-15 hour days. Support will be needed regardless, and that goes up or down depending on the number of children you have, other commitments, work and size of properties.

Adding to what Provencalgirl says, even before we got married DH was crystal clear that he had no interest in doing housework or laundry. My interest runs to the bare minimum. We therefore agreed in advance that part would be subcontracted.

The only moment of dissent came from MIL at ds1's christening when she piped up "I assume you won't be needing the cleaner now you aren't working." It was one of the very few times my mother has had my back and she simply "retorted, goodness Jean, I thought you were a feminist, are you saying you brought up your girls to clean?"

On the whole my mother has been wholly dissatisfied with our lifestyle. She could not get her head around the value of a substantial semi in a sought after part of SW London and once remarked that dd was deprived compared to me because she didn't have a pony . Limited livery in SW London mother.

Thanks everyone. To be clear, I'm not going back FT. I run my own business and can step back to part-time and have a great colleague who is able to run the company. So I intend to have lots of time with DD and then she will attend nursery PT on the days I do work. But I'm also going to have half a day to myself to do something for me. I think a cleaner is a great idea and we will pay at least the London Living Wage. Even though we live in a flat the cleaning does get on top of me. I'll look into babysitter or similar to allow DH and I to have time together every now and then. Thankfully DH is very hands on when he can be and pandemic has meant he has spent time and bonded with baby, so he is well aware and loathe to spoil that. He is currently looking after dd all day until after her nap so I can have time. We will see how job pans out after pandemic and if they do more flexi time- which is what the bank is currently discussing (only going in 2 days PW). Covid could actually change things in IB in terms of the working culture and it could become a blessing in disguise in that sense. He would still be working hard but could sometimes be there for bath time during the week which would be lovely. Overall he's a decent human being (being high earning and being kind are not mutually exclusive), and he knows the value of his family. The tips on here from those experiencing this are insightful and we will come up with a plan that works for us.

@RosesAndHellebores

You see *@korawick12345* - if I were to win the lottery I would definitely carry on working. I went back to work at 43 when dd was settled in reception because I was vice Chair of a local NHS Committee, Chair of the PTA, running Sunday School, writing a fund raising report for the local church, organising football club for 60 children, treasurer of a local group, and hearing readers at school. It got to the point where I was flat out and working for nothing. I have no doubt that when I retire similar will happen.

I guess that’s the difference, unless you are being paid you see it as working for nothing. Not everyone sees the world through that lens.

@provencegal

kora Lots of help is needed whether you are SAHP or not, because you can not rely on dh to do anything during the week as they are already doing 13-15 hour days. Support will be needed regardless, and that goes up or down depending on the number of children you have, other commitments, work and size of properties.

This is simply not true. Help is nice to have but it is not needed unless you have children with SN, just ask the millions of single parents out there. Let’s not mistake convenience and luxury with necessity.

[quote OhamIreally]@littlemissblue please don't describe yourself as "basically a single mum" and then in the next breath describe how your husband's earnings are "amazing".
It's so insulting. I'm a single mum and I'm earning all the money as well as doing everything else solo.[/quote]

This.

I've seen your follow on comment since this post and it doesn't make sense at all.

Being a single parent isn't all about the money. Yes, it's a big part of it but it's also about emotional support / having someone there. Having a life partner. Or not in case of single parents.

Single parents are responsible for thinking about and doing everything.
No one to consult if an appliance needs replacing,
No one to talk to about what bday gift to get for child.
No one to share the pain with when things go wrong
Having to remember everything about everyone with no back up.

There a many many benefits but being compared to the non working wife who of someone earning lots of money and therefore isn't there much is frankly insulting.

@Lisbon83
Setting aside all the arguments for and against I think making a success of your circumstances require;
Resilience
Compromise
Self discipline and
Organisation

I also found it helpful to plug into my local community and not get too sucked into the lunch and tennis club diaspora and when I did engage only ever to give a little of myself and our lives away.

@provencegal

kora Lots of help is needed whether you are SAHP or not, because you can not rely on dh to do anything during the week as they are already doing 13-15 hour days. Support will be needed regardless, and that goes up or down depending on the number of children you have, other commitments, work and size of properties.

I will get off my soap box in a moment but lots of help would be nice but isn't needed. It's such an hideously ignorant thing to say !!! Seriously get a grip.

Perhaps in social circles where sahp and ib partners are the norm this comment would be the 'thing to say'.

Really though, listen to yourself !!

On the single parent comparisons; I can see where a pp is coming from but it is very much without the money problems. Also dh was not interested in domestic decisions such as the colour of the kitchen, which builders, etc., and trusted me implicitly with schools.

The year he pretty much spent in NY was actually easier: the DC were about 7 and 10 and there was one less to take care of.

I do not in any way mean to undermine the load of any single parent and frankly I cannot begin to imagine how hard that must be.

@RosesAndHellebores

On the single parent comparisons; I can see where a pp is coming from but it is very much without the money problems. Also dh was not interested in domestic decisions such as the colour of the kitchen, which builders, etc., and trusted me implicitly with schools.

The year he pretty much spent in NY was actually easier: the DC were about 7 and 10 and there was one less to take care of.

I do not in any way mean to undermine the load of any single parent and frankly I cannot begin to imagine how hard that must be.

This.

But be prepared to be torn down for the comment it was easier when your dh was in NY!

My husband isn’t an investment banker, but he has a demanding job and a long commute. We have three children and I was a SAHM until our youngest was 2.5. I’ve worked part time since then, in a very flexible admin role, with some help from my mum and paid babysitters.

When I was a SAHM, I did everything. He would get up with sick children and tag team in the night, but the kids were healthy so it didn’t happen that often. He commutes by train and could snooze on the way to work.

It was what it was. We had decided early, before children were in the picture, that I would stay at home once we had a baby.

Find childcare you like and trust and use them. Find something for daytime, but also look for someone you can use in the evenings. I used to rely on DH getting home for things like book club and so I would end up not going if he was late. It bred resentment, which was eased by booking someone to come and leaving him to pay them & sort out getting them home.

Buy in all the help you can get.