Are you married to an investment banker and have kids?

[Lisbon83]

My husband is an investment banker at ED level and we recently had a baby.

I'm looking for advice from people in my position who get the hours they do and the particular stresses of the work. It's not 9-5 as we know and it's not possible to be 50/50 split on childcare during weekday evenings for example.

How did you manage family life, looking after yourself, baby etc without tearing your marriage apart? Night feeds, childcare, household chores, life admin, weekends, time for ourselves.. how to organise and any tips or ideas?

Pandemic has made it worse and harder to access outside help but hoping this will become easier soon.

DH is not an IB but a barrister. He usually works 7 days a week and long into the night every night. He is permanently under huge pressure and stress. I expect it's that sort of set up you are discussing OP.

I have luckily been able to work full time from home this last 8 years. We had 4 kids in 5 years, youngest now 3. I didn't really take mat leave (6 weeks max but usually 3 weeks). I work in tech. We've been incredibly lucky to have an absolutely irreplaceable nanny/housekeeper this last 7 years. She's the backbone of our family.

We both come from modest homes so it's taken me a long time to stop being careful with money. This last couple of years I've started paying a gardener, handyman, cleaner etc. anytime I need something done. We've a bigish house with gardens and land. It takes a lot of maintenance.

But basically yes, it's solved by cash. I can't recommend 4 kids close together though. I adore them and feel like the luckiest person on earth. But I don't have a nanny to cover my job as mum, I still have that job fully and without my DH to help in the evenings and weekends which some mums get. We do our best to spend money where it gives us the most pleasure and makes our lives easier, as compensation for the only rough thing in our lives (DHs stress and low quality of life due to work).

So take a look at how to use your money to buy time (quality family time) and rest and to remove frustrations in life (like keep £100 of ink ready for the fucking printer so you never run out).

@edwinbear

M&A is not like being a doctor. I’m sorry, but it isn’t. Given OP’s update, her DH is often given 48hrs notice to put a detailed pitch book together which If he doesn’t deliver within the clients deadlines will cost his bank a fortune in fees. And therefore his job. Regardless of whether it’s a weekend/he’s on holiday etc.

@edwinbear

No, I'm sure it isn't exactly the same. I didn't suggest it was.

Equally, he is not called upon suddenly day and night to drive in and perform a highly skilled procedure to save a patient's life. I agree that putting together a detailed presentation just isn't the same.

I sympathise with the OP, however.

It's not a competition people, it's a request for advice on how to run a family when you have good finances and an absent/stressy DH.

I think you need to have a clear life plan or the job will take over. What is the five year plan? 10 year? How much does he want to be there? What are you comfortable with?

I'd also think very carefully about how many children you have. The complexity of multiple kids can send everything sideways especially if one has any additional needs. It's the birth of a second/third child that usually brings the death knell of a woman's career.

And please, please OP no matter how much you trust and love him protect yourself financially and plan as if there will be a divorce. These jobs are designed to disconnect people from their families. Affairs are rife and all sorts of behaviour comes from the stress. If he can transition to a less stressful branch of banking at some point I'd encourage him to!

@Lisbon83 I thought I didn’t have room for night nanny (also very small London space) but was basically on my knees and begged DH to take time off work, he couldn’t (asked his boss, described his wife’s situation, birth and mental health, so he did try - flat no!) so I gave the agency I linked above a call. They were great as I described my home and needs, they said don’t need much. The night nanny we had used the sofa and a blanket, she was up most of the night anyway, their job description includes baby related tasks, we had a snuzpod and put the crib part on the living room floor. Just saying it’s worth a call, where there’s a need there’s usually a service provider. Good luck with everything and congratulations on your new baby.

I guess a child might prefer the security of knowing they won't lose their home and everything they know, being picked up by Mummy instead of Daddy every day is hardly a hardship,

Kids don't think about stuff like that - they just want their mum and dad around. Plus most of us manage to hold onto our homes without being married to IBs or being IBs ourselves.

Same type of job with the complexity of frequent international moves and children very close together.

My top tips;
Live in nanny/housekeeper and someone in on her day off when they were under five.
Holiday with another family or grandparents so you aren't left alone when work calls.
Manage your own career expectations, I won't ever earn equally as DH but need the stimuation of being employed so take short contract work.

Also worth considering: There is no one on earth you can pay to stop the worry you will have about your children, or from having the sheer mental load of sick children/stressed out teens/school issues/health issues/education demands and all the rest coming down the track.

The time your children actually need to spend with you as a their parent is considerable if you want well rounded, confident and happy kids. You can pay your way out of most problems to some degree, but as parents we need to be present, available and ready to help our children through some times some very serious problems. There needs to be someone there for your child that is not the nanny or the local maths tutor, someone to listen, to care and to hug them. Someone that truly loves them, and is not being paid to listen and care about them. Children need anchors. They need someone to steady the ship, this becomes more apparent the older they get. Plan in advance and have some real clarity about the potential hazards.

Children are easy when they are babies and tots, the real challenges often come later when they are teenagers.
Your dh may well have stopped working in the city by that point, and be able to offer emotional and practical support to older dc, but do look beyond the simple logistics of raising children, because much more is needed than paid help in my experience.

Teen girls need A LOT of support, of course teen boys do as well - you can't pay someone to do it. It is our job as parents to be invested in their well being. The more children you have, the greater demand on your reserves. It is a whole new ballgame, worth thinking through well in advance.
Who is going to be there for our children? Which one of us will be working, which one will be available? How can we do this so they don't suffer, and we are offering them the kind of life that is full of love, empathy and kindness and not just opportunity.

Never ever be tempted to live like multi millionaires either, even if you are on paper, you can get sucked into a lifestyle and the job can end in a heartbeat, and often whole careers before the age of 40. Live well within your means, and save. Be prepared for the day it all ends. As it will, perhaps sooner than you planned. Be prepared also, for it not to end quickly and you are older and the work is still just as ballbreaking.

I disagree about DC becoming more challenging as they become teenagers, I found the baby and toddler years the most difficult.

If you don’t go for a housekeeper, a washing and ironing service is great. I used one before lock down.

I am not an investment banker, but do work crazy hours. The scheduled collection and drop off after 10pm so I was usually home by then.

Single men and women have crazy, high pressured jobs. There are services out there to take the load for them, make sure your Husband arranges these. You shouldn’t be taking care of his laundry etc,.

When I was working 100 plus hours a week I was able to arrange meal services, cleaner and laundry service. I was lucky in that my parents lived close by and I will be honest my mum interviewed cleaners and my dad let deliveries in etc. But work had a service you could use for these things if needs be.

swim It depends on the child I think! And surrounding factors, and how much you know of what is happening with them. I am yet to know a teen that sailed through without a glitch. Emotional support is not something you can pay for, you can hire counsellors of course, but ultimately that job can not and should not be outsourced, but you can hire a night nanny to feed your baby easily enough.

@provencegal

blow I am not interested in 'selling' IB to you, given the millions of the brightest and best apply every year for any job in IB, banks and funds are not short on talent so I am not sure you would at the top of anyone's list anyway!

IB is a dynamic and energetic business, with the smartest people in the world, it is not however for the faint hearted woke types that think a nursery pick up is more important than a guaranteed income for life!

I guess a child might prefer the security of knowing they won't lose their home and everything they know, being picked up by Mummy instead of Daddy every day is hardly a hardship, and a complete privilege as far as I am concerned, that either of us can be there every day is a blessing.

One other poster has said it's not a secure type of career and you can lose your job at short notice. Not a job I will be fighting anyone for, thanks

Lots of intelligent people work in other careers with a better work life balance so I don't think it's necessarily one that strikes as a must have career option.

No amount of wealth is worth that. Each to their own.

provencegal that’s very true.

I entirely agree with ilovechoc with one exception and that's the coming home pissed. DH never has and couldn't have functioned at the top of his game for 20 years if he had.

"BranstonTickle Sun 25-Apr-21 02:58:29
Just pay a few working class women minimum wage to do it all for you both, it's all good."

Excellent post, 100%.

i don’t know a single person who hasn’t been made redundant from IB at some point tbh - all with payouts though. they all then found something else in the sector though.

it’s different strokes isn’t it - on one end a person could work 9-6 until 65 and worry about their mortgage but be there for their family - and on the other end it’s sell your soul to the devil, build up investments and a pension and then possibly retire at 40.

and there is a whole heap of situations in between - everyone will find what works for them hopefully and find their happy point on that spectrum.

either way it’s important to live within your means- many people i know who work in the city have a 5 bed detached, expensive car, nanny, private schools, second home and feel really stressed about finances which is crazy.

blow You don't sound cut out for it, I agree. To be either a spouse or to work in the industry yourself. Dh loves his job, with a passion I have rarely seen in other people. He chooses to continue even though he doesn't have to financially, he comes alive on the floor.

I find the similar passion and commitment in my work - although I can't match his energy levels. Completely opposite ends of the spectrum as my job is all about people at the other end of the scale. We balance out in the middle.

You don't have to work in IB. Thats the good news! You can do anything that suits you and your family.
I am here speaking to op as someone with decades of experience, and it has worked brilliantly for us. Largely down to the fact we had total clarity about what we were looking for in our lives, and the kind of life we wanted to give our children. It can offer the most incredible life certainly without question.

Also agree with provencegirl about the challenges of the teen years. I can't think of one family where the couples had dual careers (investment banking, law, entrepreneur) where both partners have maintained their careers or career trajectory beyond the prep school years and into the teenage hormone years. They are of course blessed by having the choice for one to stop or change course at that stage because everything is paid for backed up by a financial cushion. The exception are the medical families where from what I have seen there appears to be significantly more flexibility.

I work now in the public sector and have worked locally since 2003 - there is no way I could have dealt with dd as a teenager had I been schlepping backwards and forwards from the City on top of a full on job.

In reality, DH could have stopped working at 45 and we would have been able to maintain our lifestyle. He didn't because he is a workaholic. Whilst he often advised on IB (including M&A matters) he was technically self employed and was the master of his own destiny and the IB Partners had to take note of his advice/opinion.

He still works full time albeit in a different role and still gives everything he does 110% of his attention. I have often said that whatever field he had gone into, he would have given it 110% because that is just the way he is.

The thing is, with one notable exception, they don’t retire at 40! They could, but at that point they often have two or more homes, children in Private school, have become used to luxury holidays and their want to keep working to maintain these things. In the main people in these jobs are very money motivated, otherwise they wouldn’t do it. There are many many intellectually rewarding careers out there that don’t pay the big bucks. If you are in IB it is likely that money is a big motivator and that doesn’t disappear at 40 so IME they don’t retire they want more and more. Also we have seen in this thread the idea that IB perpetuates that it is home to the brightest and the best! After 20 years being told how very special you are and how valuable you are in monetary terms, how likely is it that you are going to be happy doing the school run and pootling around at home!

Sorry first sentence was meant to say in my experience that is I know of one notable exception, rather than there being one notable exception worldwide😀

I see I cross posted with two posters who have made my case for me 😊

Not read the whole thread. DH is not an investment banker, but in a profession that demands v long hours and travel. I work in a creative, low paid career, but have had long periods of being an SAHM. I used to be a high paid lawyer but changed careers to be at home more.

We have two children. Hired cleaners and nannies when they were young. We are expats so family has mostly been 3000 miles away. We have had a very exciting life with all the travel and adventure you could hope for. That said, it has been hard, very hard, and at one point DH took a sabbatical and tried to do something else. It didn't work out so he had to return to his job. However, he plans to retire by 55 and we will be in an financial position to do that. There are times when I think it was worth it, and times I do not...... When I married him he wasn't in this position, so I did not foresee this.

Also, we are both immigrants from a very poor country and money has been important to us, because well paying jobs with good work life balance did not exist when we entered the workforce. We are in a position to support our family should they need it in the future, in a country where there is no social security.

I don't think people realise that Investment Banking doesn't have the prestige or the salary it had 20 years ago... Back then it was a lucrative career with insane bonuses especially if you were on the trading floor. It also had more job security during that time where permanent contracts actually meant something...

Nowadays you can be fired at the drop of a hat, the money / bonuses isn't near what it was, the pressure and expectations put on employees shoulders are ludicrous and it simply wears people down and ages them beyond their years before their time. You can see the relentless pressure written all over an Investment Banker's face and all for what? Missing out on everything and EVERYONE who's important in their life for the sake of an unstable and cut throat career...

I speak from personal experience of being married to one and having previously worked in the sector myself. @Lisbon83 IMO you should encourage your DH to change careers sooner rather than later (as you say he has a law degree so should find many other less demanding but rewarding sectors available to him)... the level of stress your DH is under is unsustainable believe me on that one and he truly can't be happy living like that whatever outward face he projects to you... We would never encourage our children to go into Investment Banking btw!

I think it's important to spend time with your children while their young to develop a close bond. Basically 'in the blink of an eye' they've grown up and left home. There's no point having regrets then...

@MarthaGinyard

I guess a child might prefer the security of knowing they won't lose their home and everything they know, being picked up by Mummy instead of Daddy every day is hardly a hardship,

Kids don't think about stuff like that - they just want their mum and dad around. Plus most of us manage to hold onto our homes without being married to IBs or being IBs ourselves.

Exactly.

Not an investment banker but DH works long hours in banking and I'm a SAHM. We spend money on services like cleaning to make life easier. I do everything at home during the week while he focuses on his job. He has never done any night wakings and doesn't change nappies or do baths. It works great right now but I have no idea how we are going to manage things when I eventually go back to work... I suspect I'll always be the default parent and my career will never reach the same levels it might have done. Both of those things are ok by me though. I think it's unrealistic for two parents to both be equally ambitious in their careers. Someone has to stand back a bit, at least when the children are very young.