If someone told you their name was Ryan but Ryan spelt with a W how would it be spelt?

[PuzzleMonkeyMum]

Because I had to write it down today but I was too embarrassed to ask him to clarify the spelling 🙈.

I used to work with a guy called Sion who would say "not like the colour - like Shaun the sheep, but Welsh" which confused a lot of people. Clearly he should have gone for Sean Withaneye instead.

@Rukaya

Or Shawn the Sheep, pronounced Shorn, doesn't work in an Irish accent

Yes it does.

It doesn't. Irish accents are all rhotic -- we pronounce all 'r' sounds. So Shawn and Shorn sound completely different in a rhotic accent, and aren't homonyms. 'My name is Seán/Shawn and I've just shorn that sheep.'

It doesn't. Irish accents are all rhotic -- we pronounce all 'r' sounds. So Shawn and Shorn sound completely different in a rhotic accent, and aren't homonyms. 'My name is Seán/Shawn and I've just shorn that sheep

I've just said it. In my Irish accent. It works fine.
But please do tell me again how my own voice sounds.

I think they do.
What's your point?
My point being that some people are implying that Irish people can't pronounce it properly when it's actually an Irish name.

I have tested shawn on a Cork person, a Belfast person, and a person from the north east of England. None pronounced shawn as shorn, but all pronounced shorn as shorn.

@Rukaya

It doesn't. Irish accents are all rhotic -- we pronounce all 'r' sounds. So Shawn and Shorn sound completely different in a rhotic accent, and aren't homonyms. 'My name is Seán/Shawn and I've just shorn that sheep

I've just said it. In my Irish accent. It works fine.
But please do tell me again how my own voice sounds.

I'd be fascinated to know where exactly this Irish accent derives from that doesn't vocalise 'r' after a vowel sound.

I'd be fascinated to know where exactly this Irish accent derives from that doesn't vocalise 'r' after a vowel sound.
The whole country!

Shawn is an Irish name, is it not? Irish people tend to say it very softly.

In my experience its certain areas of England that add 'r' into words that don't have an R in them.

I'm English and there are a huge amount of different accents and nuances used by English people. I know England has a much bigger population than Ireland, but it's not like all Irish people live in one contained town that's a mile in diameter, with no roads or distance between cities/towns/settlements.

Traditionally, it's been the more tedious and less bright members of my own nation who have assumed that all Irish/Scottish/Welsh people speak with exactly the same accent.

@JaneJeffer

I'd be fascinated to know where exactly this Irish accent derives from that doesn't vocalise 'r' after a vowel sound. The whole country!

You're misreading me! As far as I'm aware, all Irish accents vocalise 'r' after a vowel. The only Irish accent I can think of where 'Seán' and 'shorn' would be homonyms would be something very specific like that of a quite elderly Anglo-Irish person.

Not specifically suggesting that any individual on here is 'not bright', but that belief itself is somewhat naive, imho.

You're misreading me! Sorry, you're right, I did. I thought you meant after a final vowel e.g. Annar for Anna.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

I'm English and there are a huge amount of different accents and nuances used by English people. I know England has a much bigger population than Ireland, but it's not like all Irish people live in one contained town that's a mile in diameter, with no roads or distance between cities/towns/settlements.

Traditionally, it's been the more tedious and less bright members of my own nation who have assumed that all Irish/Scottish/Welsh people speak with exactly the same accent.

There are definitely regional variations in accents, but the rhotic 'r' is widespread in Ireland. 'Seán/Shawn' and 'shorn' are pronounced differently.

Although I still don't understand what exactly you mean.

I'd be fascinated to know where exactly this Irish accent derives from that doesn't vocalise 'r' after a vowel sound

I'm sure you would. You'll have to use your imagination (and probably realise that there are lot more to Irish accents than you think)

@Rukaya

I'd be fascinated to know where exactly this Irish accent derives from that doesn't vocalise 'r' after a vowel sound

I'm sure you would. You'll have to use your imagination (and probably realise that there are lot more to Irish accents than you think)

Thanks for that.

So Seán and 'shorn' are homonyms in your Irish accent, and you don't think this is in any way uncharacteristic of the vast majorityof said accents.

Amongst people I know it isn't.

We had a Wendy with a G! It was Gwendoline!

Ok I get it now @NinthCircle, but it's not that English people don't pronounce the r in shorn but that they add an r to Shawn making it Sharwn.

the rhotic 'r' is widespread in Ireland.

Oh, I realise that - but it still doesn't mean that any Irish person using their own (less common) variant of their native accent that doesn't feature it can be confidently told that they don't have an Irish accent!

Off topic...whatever that is... but we are getting into the Owain Hughes territory on Gavin and Stacey.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

the rhotic 'r' is widespread in Ireland.

Oh, I realise that - but it still doesn't mean that any Irish person using their own (less common) variant of their native accent that doesn't feature it can be confidently told that they don't have an Irish accent!

It's true that they still have an Irish accent but I can't think of any part of the country with that pronunciation!

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

the rhotic 'r' is widespread in Ireland.

Oh, I realise that - but it still doesn't mean that any Irish person using their own (less common) variant of their native accent that doesn't feature it can be confidently told that they don't have an Irish accent!

I never said that -- I certainly know Irish individuals who don't have rhotic rs. But @Rukaya says that 'among the people she knows' 'Seán' and 'shorn' are homonyms.

My partner is from NI with a very strong regional accent like everyone in his home village.

Just asked him as he rarely pronounces r at all.

He’s saying Shon for Sean (as in “the sun shone on the sea” in an RP accent)

And Shoyn for Shorn.

He also has a new “poyuh shoyuh”.

(power shower).

The only time I’ve ever heard him say rrr is in Primark (Pree - more-ck). My friend is only half an hour from where he grew up but has a much more rhotic accent. Her boyfriend is a Sean and she also says “Shon” but says Shorn with a rhotic r (still both different).

My BIL is from Co Mayo. Sean is different again! More like how RP speakers would say Sian (Sh - ah - n) but shorn has a rhotic r more like Sharn with a rhotic rrr.

Complex things accents.

Dh was talking to a Canadian on the phone about the weather a few years ago, we had been having really heavy showers. Or shars, as he says. After a few attempts he gave up. In dh accent shower has one syllable and rain has two. (Ryan has one).