The ‘phenomenon’ of younger men approaching older women in the street. Is this an organised scam and what do they want?

[azar]

I am 47 years old, married with 4 DC. In recent weeks (this is on Fulham Road), I’ve been approached on two separate occasions by two men who are both maybe early 30s and both have the same kind of “patter” (if you can call it that). There was also another one this morning, who I didn’t engage with at all because I suspected the same thing. They ask you “Excuse me, do you live round here?” So you stop because you think they need directions, etc. At this point, they tell you they have just moved to the area from another (nearby) part of London and they ask you again if you are local. They are British with British accents. They say something about how they want to meet people and would you like to go for coffee / lunch with them there and then . They are reasonably good-looking men by average standards and would not strike you as odd if you walked past them in the street. A similar thing has also happened to a friend last week.

I’m sure this is some kind of scam, but I wonder what it is they actually want? Are they just trying to get a free lunch? Are they expecting you to take them to your home and then they will rob you or worse? (They are very interested in whether you are local). What do they actually think is going to happen and why would they think an older woman would be interested in someone their age?

Has anyone else experienced this?

I've lived in London all my life, (not far from OP), this has always been a thing. It's not particular to London either.

Men trying to get a shag is hardly news.

I find the fact they walk beside the woman very intimidating. To anybody else on the street, it looks like they're together.

The step between them and incels is like one of those really low ones you don't see until you trip on it.

This is so weird, because the same thing has happened to me twice in the last week. Both times in the North End Road/ West Kensington area. But the people who approached me were women, one late 20s/ 30s, one about my own age (early 40s). Both ended up getting round to asking me for cash (which I no longer ever have, anyway!) having promised at great length that they didn't need money, had just moved here, had locked themselves out, etc. One case was quite upsetting because the woman claimed that she'd left her two year old indoors and couldn't get back in unless I gave her £12 in coins.

Maybe some sort of organised scam? Or is it just a sign of people being increasingly poor and desperate? I've also noticed that the aggressive window washers are back all down the A40 at traffic lights. I'm old enough and have lived in the same place for long enough to take these as the first sign of a recession!

I had this happen too - slightly different form of words. I'm late 50s and was walking past a row of shops locally in north London and a guy in his early 30s came up to me and said ' I really like your style, I think you look really cool, could I take your number?' I was on the phone at the time so I just waved him away and walked off. It seemed quite odd (though I did look cool). My friend said it had happened to her too and she gave him her number and later slept with him....(!!!). She's 40 and single and well there you are. We thought it might be the same guy.

Hell hath no fury like a woman who sees one of these low-life harassing her 15-year-old daughter.

My dd and I were shopping in a fairly crowded Cambridge street several years ago, and were sauntering along. I had turned to peer into a shop window and when I turned back, there he was, in her face and very assertively asking her something. She tried to back off with a look of slight panic in her eyes, and he stepped towards her again.

I have honestly never felt anger like it. I marched over and said "LEAVE HER ALONE". He ignored me, so I inserted myself between him and dd and yelled at him "LEAVE MY CHILD ALONE YOU PERVERT!" and stepped towards him. If he hadn't backed off, I think I would have hit him, I was so enraged.

Why can't these men just fuck off and leave women and girls alone?

I was told about a young woman who when hassled by unwanted men for phone numbers gives them the number of the dogs trust donation line

@justanotherneighinparadise

The ‘are you local’ line makes me wonder if they’re purposely wanting local people as they’re hoping to come back to your home. I guess these people were previously trying to pick up older (potentially monied) women in bars previously age now they’re left jumping out at you in the street. The scam is undoubtedly done sugar mummy situation or just petty theft.

Personally if it was happening a lot in my area I’d stick my headphones in and keep walking.

Having known people who do these courses “and got really good at PUA ”, they teach you to open the conversation with a question like that as a gateway to get more info to keep the chat going. Eg Are you local? Yes —-> how long have you lived here? No——> oh where are you from? Then they ask something to do with an activity in the area, or some sort of fact.

Eg; I’m not from Fulham I’m from Birmingham.... (what’s it like there?) It’s famous for a big shopping centre.

THEN they have two avenues of conversation so if one dries up, e.g visiting the Midlands, they can ask you about shopping.

Stopping people in the street is also one of their “shock and awe” tactics as it’s meant to surprise you that someone has seen you on the street and found you so captivating they’re dying to talk to you.

A lot of the “superstar PUAs” live in Eastern European cities where they can have a champagne lifestyle on tap water budget and get more people to follow them and book their courses.

I grew up in London.... from a very young age you're taught always look like your late for something... walk fast, look straight ahead and keep going!
When I was older I perfected the scowl and what the fuck do you want look

How weird perhaps they are employed by local bars cafes takeaways to get customers so you go and get coffee with them and cafe gets some much needed revenue much like you get in holiday resorts abroad. Other than that no idea luring you to your death perhaps please post if you find out what it is.

@hopsalong

This is so weird, because the same thing has happened to me twice in the last week. Both times in the North End Road/ West Kensington area. But the people who approached me were women, one late 20s/ 30s, one about my own age (early 40s). Both ended up getting round to asking me for cash (which I no longer ever have, anyway!) having promised at great length that they didn't need money, had just moved here, had locked themselves out, etc. One case was quite upsetting because the woman claimed that she'd left her two year old indoors and couldn't get back in unless I gave her £12 in coins.

Maybe some sort of organised scam? Or is it just a sign of people being increasingly poor and desperate? I've also noticed that the aggressive window washers are back all down the A40 at traffic lights. I'm old enough and have lived in the same place for long enough to take these as the first sign of a recession!

Yes you know when the windscreen wipers congregate on the junction of East Acton a40 it's not good!

Stopping people in the street is also one of their “shock and awe” tactics as it’s meant to surprise you that someone has seen you on the street and found you so captivating they’re dying to talk to you.

It's also easier because women have their guard down. They are usually polite and friendly because they are anticipating the PUA is going to ask for directions or the time whereas in a bar, she's likely already thinking fuck off before they open their mouths.

The whole trying to get a women to agree to go for a coffee straightaway is along the same lines. Don't let a woman have time to think about and change her mind. In fact, they don't ask, they tell eg "I have 10 minutes before I meet my friend, we can get a coffee. Do you prefer tea or coffee?" There is also some theory about trying to go to multiple different locations and meet up more than one time in a day so the woman feels like they have been on several dates and knows the PUA so will be more likely to have sex.

Yes this is it, thinking about it. When I was younger, I would get a lot of hassle daily, so I was constantly on guard. But these days, if a man approaches in the street, my instinctive thought is he must be lost or want money - particularly if he is significantly younger. So as Orange says, your guard is down. Anyway, it pisses me off.

If they were trying to find out were I live to burgle us, this seems like a very complicated way to do it. Last time we were burgled (about a year ago) they just took an axe to the front door in full view of passers by and neighbours in a residential street and walked in in broad daylight. Thank god none of us were home at the time. We have heightened security now!

vomcomvomcom Having known people who do these courses “and got really good at PUA hmm”, they teach you to open the conversation with a question like that as a gateway to get more info to keep the chat going.
Eg Are you local?
Yes —-> how long have you lived here?
No——> oh where are you from?
Then they ask something to do with an activity in the area, or some sort of fact.

In the unlikely event that I'd be cornered into replying instead of ignoring or sneering and ignoring, I always respond "Why do you want to know that?" to any stupid questions. I even said it to a police officer that I had made a complaint to once, who asked me where I worked (it was irrelevant). He looked slightly terrified and apologised for asking!

Its a great response to any stupid question from a stranger/near stranger. It puts them on the back foot, answers their question with a perfectly reasonable one of their own, but not one which they can answer and still sound reasonable. It gives you breathing space in which to scowl and move away.

I have the mindset that I shouldn't give out any information at all, unless there is a direct benefit in doing so. A benefit for me, that is.

If they actually formulated a justification for their question, I would reply "Why on earth would you want to know something like that?" swiftly followed by "Leave me alone" or "Go away and fukc yourself".

I really don't take well to being questioned by strangers...

Don't feel you have to be nice to these people. You're not a hostess in a nightclub.

Definitely a scam, sounds like they are deliberately targeting what they see as a wealthy neighbourhood! Completely ignore, don’t engage. Maybe worth mentioning to local police.

@azar

Yes this is it, thinking about it. When I was younger, I would get a lot of hassle daily, so I was constantly on guard. But these days, if a man approaches in the street, my instinctive thought is he must be lost or want money - particularly if he is significantly younger. So as Orange says, your guard is down. Anyway, it pisses me off.

If they were trying to find out were I live to burgle us, this seems like a very complicated way to do it. Last time we were burgled (about a year ago) they just took an axe to the front door in full view of passers by and neighbours in a residential street and walked in in broad daylight. Thank god none of us were home at the time. We have heightened security now!

It might be they think they can get into the house and steal something

If a man stops me to ask for directions, I just say I don't know, but usually they don't get that far because i put up a hand and say NO.

If they asked to walk with me, I'd panic and shout "fire" because apparently that gets more attention. i live in a rough area.

I do some dating coaching for women only but I can tell you that there’s a lot more coaching going on and a lot of men more interested in these types of things in lockdown so it could def be guys practising their skills.

The typology you described occurs more often in European romance scams.

I live in Europe, have no idea what you are talking about! Made me LOL though.

OP, just a normal old-fashioned pick up line if you ask me.

I find the fact they walk beside the woman very intimidating.

Yep. So I stop and look in a shop window, look behind me, say hi to a stranger, even step into the nearest pub.

Anything to get away from them.

Could be scam with money as objective but if it's pua - the reason they are well.groomed, confident, attractive etc. could be that they are coaches not students, and they're secretly filming promotional material and teaching material.

Incidentally, that's known as "Day Game" .. as opposed to night game in bars, clubs etc.

I'd have assumed it was a religious thing but that's due to past experiences rather than any real knowledge. I had no idea PUAs were still a thing, I genuinely thought they'd been embarrassed into non-existence several years ago!

@MarshmallowAra

Could be scam with money as objective but if it's pua - the reason they are well.groomed, confident, attractive etc. could be that they are coaches not students, and they're secretly filming promotional material and teaching material.

Incidentally, that's known as "Day Game" .. as opposed to night game in bars, clubs etc.

Another reason we need a privacy law.

Seems there is a gap in the market for courses for us women. New and imaginative ways to tell men to fuck off when they bother us in the street 😉
We could target the areas PUAs work and film our best efforts.

No. Go away. I don’t want to talk to you.
Repeated louder if needed.

I just don’t engage. See also chuggers.

I often wish I spoke welsh to be able to just say something to them in a language thry couldnrbunderstand.

Could it be Jehovah Witness's or another similar group? They can't knock doors at the moment so maybe they are going on a charm offensive? It's good to keep your wits about you regardless.

Maybe they figure that for every 100 women they hit on, one will get a coffee with them or something?

Probably this.

The famous pick up artist (and misogynist) Roosh V writes guides which are pretty much the modern version of 'The Game'. I read a free excerpt from his book out of interest and he advises to just keep approaching women and striking up conversations until you no longer feel awkward. He also suggests doing it in non traditional places like supermarkets where women will be less defensive than when standing at a bar (and also won't have drunk friends around to 'cock block' men). It's all a bit grim.