The ‘phenomenon’ of younger men approaching older women in the street. Is this an organised scam and what do they want?

[azar]

I am 47 years old, married with 4 DC. In recent weeks (this is on Fulham Road), I’ve been approached on two separate occasions by two men who are both maybe early 30s and both have the same kind of “patter” (if you can call it that). There was also another one this morning, who I didn’t engage with at all because I suspected the same thing. They ask you “Excuse me, do you live round here?” So you stop because you think they need directions, etc. At this point, they tell you they have just moved to the area from another (nearby) part of London and they ask you again if you are local. They are British with British accents. They say something about how they want to meet people and would you like to go for coffee / lunch with them there and then . They are reasonably good-looking men by average standards and would not strike you as odd if you walked past them in the street. A similar thing has also happened to a friend last week.

I’m sure this is some kind of scam, but I wonder what it is they actually want? Are they just trying to get a free lunch? Are they expecting you to take them to your home and then they will rob you or worse? (They are very interested in whether you are local). What do they actually think is going to happen and why would they think an older woman would be interested in someone their age?

Has anyone else experienced this?

@Devlesko

Never heard of this, but I'm NW, perhaps you should just move, sounds like a right dodgy area.

Well, not if these men are after money. Sounds more like OP's in a rich area if they think she's likely to be their sugar mummy or something.

Ps a man that age would be on tinder or meetup if he wanted to meet people

@Maireas

What's PUA?

Pick Up Artist

I've had something similar OP, but they're more forthright, smartly dressed young men asking for money for the bus.

I’d say pick up artists. I live similar area and have had maybe 2 or 3 cases, I think it’s because bars are closed

Eye there's no need to pick up random women in the street in the age of Tinder

They're defo trying to part you from your money somehow.

women should learn PUA techniques so as to be able to spot them IMO

I thought Mormons too.

There seems to be a church/training centre here, because there are an unusual number of them.

They usually look very 'preppy', the young men and women are very wholesome looking.

They'll walk up and be very open, commenting positively on your shopping, children, car, the area etc.

Very friendly and bouncy, but with no overt pushing of religion.

I'm sure it's a PR/lead in thing.

No idea about London but in tourist areas it can be to do with people trafficking they choose single women with children who might be desperate for a relationship apparently

Thank you for the heads up OP, I hadn't heard of this.

If it happens to me I think I'll say, loudly, something like "I'm not comfortable being approached by random men in the street, leave me alone" and carry on walking with a determined look/ blanking them as necessary.. Might throw a fuck off in there if they're persistent

I wonder if it could be that pickup artist thing. There was a documentary a while ago about that with this hideous man, training other men to hassle women in the streets and not take no for an answer. Maybe they have to get so many phone numbers to “pass” the course or something. I did say to one of them (I don’t know why I felt the need to say this but I was just baffled about why he was trying to talk to me) - “I am in my late 40s.” He didn’t seem bothered about that at all. He just said, “Really, you look great. Do you want to grab a coffee? Do you live far away?” and started walking with me along the street.” I had to pointedly tell him I was married and please leave me alone after that.

Interesting . I live in the Fulham area but its not happened to me yet . That said when I'm wandering the streets its always with the dog ( a big black one - soft as a pussy but who's to know that ) .

@BarbaraofSeville

I once lived in an area where there was some sort of PUA guy who ran courses and they’d go out in groups to practice what they’d learned, seeing how many phone numbers they could get in one session. They’d sometimes have a mate filming at a distance and they’d post their successes on YouTube to advertise the courses

Seriously?

Men run courses teaching other men how to pick women up, and then they go out to harrass random women to practice what they've learned?

Words fail me.

Unfortunately so. Someone linked an article about it on here a few weeks ago, it was written by a (woman) journalist who sat in on one of the courses and went out observing the "practice session" afterwards. It was very uncomfortable reading, and the course leader didn't seem to register that the targets women his proteges were harassing trying to pick up most likely didn't appreciate their advances. It was all justified by "well it's flattery and she'll know now that a man thought she was cute" type justifications. It didn't register AT ALL that the women most likely wanted to be left alone to enjoy their drink in peace without being used as unwitting life coaches to a dude with no social skills.

Definitely sounds like a pick up artist, in the city centre where I live it has happened several times in the same place. They are so pushy and it makes me really uncomfortable I’ve even seen the same guy doing it twice.

Obviously good looking men dont usually need to go on a course to learn how to pick up women. Thinking about it op, ive had this experience and my connection to reality made me suspicious.im in good nick for 50 but men have to be 60 before they glance twice 😥 and im not running myself down there. It's just life.

In the book im listening to there were examples where good looking people extracted declarations from people in the street, yes i love that wine! Or yes i do go to the theatre! I frequent the opera yes, i love dining out yes, And then the things they said to impress the acttractive canvasser were used to back them in to a corner where they felt theyd be exposing themsrlves as a liar if they didnt buy a yearly discount card for wine/theatre/restaurants etc

“Hi, are you local?”
“Oh brilliant, there’s a thread about blokes like you on Mumsnet & everybody’s trying to work out what you’re up to. The main theory at the moment is that you’re practising pick up lines. Can you tell me so I can pass it on?”

100% sounds like “pick up artist”/PUA training. I knew a guy who spent THOUSANDS on those courses, he was a right slimy f**ker. They are one step up from incels

“I’d say pick up artists. I live similar area and have had maybe 2 or 3 cases, I think it’s because bars are closed”

Yes it could be because bars are closed and they have nowhere else to practise whatever it is they’re practising? They are quite confident. One of them looked a bit like that Rio Ferdinand (not him obviously)! and the other looked like someone who would have a lot more luck on Tinder (or women his own age at least).

The language and behaviour pattern is the giveaway that they're up to no good. Someone who wants to meet someone and get to know them doesn't apply the same pressure. They don't argue with the obvious brush-off.

If you want to get someone to give in easily, you back them into a corner and then you keep the pressure on. People revert to their 'default' behaviours, which for the majority of women is be polite and show an interest in the person. Be nice. Scammers know the psychology, they know who is more likely to be a safe bet, and they know how to push buttons.

They also know that we don't tend to observe much, day to day. It's extremely unlikely that you, for example, would have been standing or sitting somewhere out of sight watching him select the people he was going to approach. If you did, you'd probably see a pattern. Women on their own, women who don't look like they're on their way to something specific, like an appointment or meeting. They'll more or less have a list they're working to. Definitely let the police know, give a description if you can, and if you're on NextDoor or a local community Facebook group, give them a heads up as well.

I would say pick up artists too practising their technique.

It’s possibly a money scam where they want you to invite them to your home (no coffee places open) but they don’t sound like down and outs from your description.

@EmpressWitchDoesntBurn

“Hi, are you local?” “Oh brilliant, there’s a thread about blokes like you on Mumsnet & everybody’s trying to work out what you’re up to. The main theory at the moment is that you’re practising pick up lines. Can you tell me so I can pass it on?”

Perfect, Empress.

sounds just like a couple of scammers. Doubt its a widespread thing

Men run courses teaching other men how to pick women up, and then they go out to harrass random women to practice what they've learned

Words fail me
It's as if women are just objects or something.

Like in what world is this actually good idea?

@BarbaraofSeville

I once lived in an area where there was some sort of PUA guy who ran courses and they’d go out in groups to practice what they’d learned, seeing how many phone numbers they could get in one session. They’d sometimes have a mate filming at a distance and they’d post their successes on YouTube to advertise the courses

Seriously?

Men run courses teaching other men how to pick women up, and then they go out to harrass random women to practice what they've learned?

Words fail me.

Yes. It was bizarrely all quite professional. The theory bit was done in a conference centre and I remember the website boasted of free refreshments. If you bought the most expensive packages you’d get to go out with the guy to a bar in the evening and practice your skills too.

This was quite a few years ago. Perhaps they do the courses on Zoom now.

People who talk to you in the street in London are always either trying to pick you up, harass you (fine line between the two sometimes), get money from you, or convert you to their religion. Occasionally these categories overlap.

The only exception is old ladies at bus stops, who will occasionally chat with no ulterior motive.