If you're female and frequented rock clubs...

[whoami24601]

Can you help me? I have a theory...

With #toomanymen trending and everyone sharing stories I've been mulling over my own experiences of harassment. Whilst thinking about my time as a teenager I've realised that, although I mostly went to rock pubs and clubs, all of my bad experiences happened in 'normal' nightclubs.

I have long thought that the rock scene is much more relaxed, friendly and accepting than others, and I'd like to know if that is your experience as well? I'm interested if I'm the exception or the rule.

Thanks!

I've never thought of that before, but now I am, I think that's my experience as well.

I don't remember ever being groped etc whilst at a gig in a 'rock' bar/pub/venue. Only ever at a standard nightclub, which would happen every single time.

Interesting ...

I didn't go to loads but some with fronds who were more into the seven. I think there is a truth in this. Partly because they are more anonymous. Where as it was more of a community in people knew or recognised each other to an extent.

Yes, thinking about it, I have never had an uncomfortable experience at a rock club and the men I knew, at the scruffiest, loudest, smelliest, rock pub known to man were almost all decent, respectful and protective. My parents were terrified of me going to rock nights and scared of all my rock/metal friends, but I felt far safer there than anywhere else.

I had never thought about this before but yes this this my experience too. I hardly ever went to a rock club as my friends were not into that kind of music, but the few times I did go I loved the friendly relaxed atmosphere and chatting to random people without feeling threatened.

Also my experience also. Never had my arse grabbed in a rock/alternative night or even the most crowded of gigs and festivals. Loads of fun random conversations and the odd snog. It’s the ‘townie’ venues you need to watch yourself in.

I feel like I'm forever telling people that metalheads are the nicest people in the world and being politely disbelieved, so thank you for starting this thread. Not only have I experienced zero harassment but there also seems to not be the sort of undercurrent of feeling like it might all kick off that you get towards the end of the night in some mainstream clubs/gigs. My theory is that all the aggression is contained in the mosh pit, and then at the end of the night instead of milling about annoyed that they haven't pulled, everyone's just happy they've seen Napalm Death and put the world to rights.

Agreed. and I never stopped going to see rock bands (andnever will). usually small venues. Never a problem.
Regular venues were

Picked up mid mosh by fit bloke! Happy days

This is so true. Spent most of my younger days in indie/rock bars and clubs and was never an issue there. Elsewhere yes, but never there.

Yes, and it was the same 40 years ago in the roughest, grimiest biker pubs that let us young punks in and looked after us

On the whole yes, but I have still been on the end of comments and situations in these places. For example at one gig at the front a guy standing next to me was deliberately dragging his elbow into and then down my ribs as hard as he could. Not dancing or moshing but because he thought he could get away with it, I guess, but the look of malice he gave me whilst doing it was pretty chilling. He didn't realise my husband was standing the other side of me though, and he wasn't next to me for much longer after I'd told my husband

In general, going to a nightclub that wasn't rock-orientated would result in groping (every time!), being called a lesbian, disgusting crude comments about my tattoos. I've been spat at and catcalled by groups of men outside these places. At least in rock pubs I didn't stand out as being 'different', so was less of a target. Which is funny because other than a few tattoos I'm quite unremarkable-looking (I even manage to hold down a professional job, shocker).

I find you still get guys who feel just as entitled wherever you go, but in rock clubs there is plenty; comments about my breasts, giving me a cigarette and expecting me to go home with him, being leered at. One guy who I was friends with once didn't have anywhere to stay and I felt sorry for him and invited him to sleep on my sofa. He then told all his friends I had led him on and next time I was in the pub, some old punk dude came up to me and started ranting at me that I was a 'prick tease'. I'll never forget how small and embarrassed that arsehole made me feel. There had never been any flirtation or suggestion of sex between us and yet somehow I'd offended him by not offering him a shag! Should have just let him sleep on the street.

Also with everything that has come out re Marilyn Manson recently this has made me realise that I had a very skewed perception when in my teens and 20s regarding men. I dated plenty of older guys (rock/metal fans) in my teens and now I look back I think how gross it is that a 30 year old man would be interested in a 16 year old girl.

Phew that was cathartic.

Yes, my experience as well.

I used to frequent the Electric Ballroom, Torture Garden back in the late 90s, early 2000s and never had issues with men groping me.

Every single one of my negative experiences in nightclubs happened in mainstream clubs.

I've lost count of the amount of times I was groped, harassed, leached over, sexually assaulted until I was 28 and moved to the country I now live in.

Only once here has a man asked to see my wedding ring when I told him I was married and was trying to come on to me. I told him that me not wanting to be groped by him had nothing to do with "belonging" to another man, and if he didn't take his hands off me I'd rip his balls off.

Totally agree! Back in the day I would happily have a drink on my own in the rock/indie pubs/clubs in my town whilst I waited for friends etc. Occasionally a male stranger would speak to me but it would be something about the music or just a hello etc- never anything that made me feel uncomfortable. Not the case in the 'townie' pubs and clubs. Even in 'nice' hotels when I was working away I found that sitting alone in the bar made me a target for middle aged men who wanted to tell me that their wives didn't understand them.

DH also used to frequent rock clubs and pubs where most people would have said the 'wierdos' (punks/goths/rockers etc) hung out. He didn't particularly dress the part for these places but didn't like the townie pubs/clubs because all too often some drunk bloke would try to end the night with a fight.

I worked in rock bars and clubs when I was younger. There were numerous men each night making lude, unwanted and downright disgusting comments about me. I remember a guy and his friend having a bet on my bra size and offering me a fiver tip if I told them. Some guy used to perv over my belly button! Guys would ask for a blow job for a £1 tip... then there was the “just banter” crew who are still at it 30
Years on and see no issue with it.
There were many drunken men not taking no for an answer when they asked me for a kiss (or more) then getting called all sorts of frigid when they finally got the no message. Having guys lean over the bar to slap my arse. Getting my tits groped by men (and women which was worse because they felt it was ok because they weren’t men). My boss in a rock club used to try to remove my T-shirt behind the bar while male punters cheered him on. I couldn’t leave that job as I had rent to pay but he stopped when I threatened to tell his wife. We often all knew who the rapists and domestic abusers were and they’d be ostracised from the scene but it was no different being part of the rock scene than any other.

The difference I did notice was that there were men willing to call out other men behaving inappropriately which I haven’t seen in other environments as much. I definitely feel safer in a rock environment but it’s not immune to theee behaviours

This is my experience. Much less (not nil) groping/harassment in rock and metal venues than in mainstream ones. I always wondered if it was due to more nerds being metalheads or punks; my group at uni was all the same type of STEM folk and it seemed that way for others I met too. Very few fights in my favourite metal pub, because of the biker chapter that use it putting people off any rowdiness!

I’ve never thought about before, but sort of agree. On one hand my personal experience would cause me to agree. I went to those sort of places in the late 80s/early 90s. I can definitely remember being creeped on and a guy I didn’t know noticing and saying “Oi mate, knock it off yeah?”, probably my only experience of another man stepping up. But then I think if how objectified women were, it was all leather and lace and hookers=sexy version of glamour which was massively uncomfortable. But overall I would say it was better than “normie” world, but that bar is lower than a racing snake and it was not actually OK.

Yes...ish.

There was much less casual groping and mauling, but there tended to be a few older guys who performed the “scene” very well (right clothes, knew everyone, good stories) who would have relationships with much younger girls.

Absolutely agree

Was just thinking about this the other day looking at some old pictures. I remembered someone I sort of knew at the time coming to rescue 17 year old me from a vicious, scary looking, punk who had me cornered at a club

Punk was a mate of my mums and was the nicest person ever. He was just checking how I was doing. My new friend got an A+ rating back to my mum as well for coming to my 'rescue'. Everyone just seemed to look out for each other

I can’t remember a fight in any of the Indie/Rock clubs I went to. There was always a fight in and outside the mainstream clubs whenever I had the misfortune to have to go to one

Fully agree OP! I found most people in rock clubs/bar so friendly and alot more respectful than in regular nightclubs! Didn't seem to be the intimidating nature to them. There was one in a city near me that was a bit rougher and I known a few people got injured in fights etc but that was a big nightclub so got ALOT of people going as the drinks were so cheap too

I agree too though I'd never thought of it before. Gigs too. Most sexually creepy thing to happen in an "alternative" setting was the fucking prick singer of an American punk-pop band telling the guys in the audience to "feel up the cute chicks around you." I didn't see any of the guys obey though.
The normal bars were a shitshow though, as others have said.

Agree - when I was a young teen punk the boys were welcoming. My scariest looking friends (chains spikes tats) were always looking out for me, going home early with me even if their curfew was later. I got groped once at a small backyard gig, my male friends and acquaintances grabbed him and threw him out.

Talking of scary-looking punks, I was in Camden Market once on a trip to London with DH and I started to feel really dizzy and faint. I have chronic health problems so DH is well used to having to 'park' me somewhere quiet if my head goes. He left me sitting on some steps for a couple of minutes while he finished whatever it was that he was doing, and I put my head down and just shut my eyes for a minute until the dizziness passed. Looked up and there was a guy sitting a little way away from me, huge Mohawk, tattoos, facial piercings, the works, but the kindest face I've ever seen. He caught my eye and said 'You alright now?' I said yes and he got up and just quietly left. I hadn't even realised that he'd been looking after me. A similar thing happened not long after outside Tesco in a naice part of our town and people literally stepped over me.

I agree. I remember leaving one night and walking home (I was 15/16) and THAT'S when I got 'groped' by a stranger. Luckily, some people were not too far behind.

Yes I can identify with this though my go to place are dance clubs.

I used to got to 'townie' clubs with my female friends and at least once a night one of us would get accosted. My final straw was when someone came up behind me and started rubbing his erection on my bum. It was the last time I ever went to a townie club.

I have rarely had a bad experience in dance clubs and when I have I have only had to mention to a bouncer (who we always knew) and they would be marched out.

I once had a guy rubbing up against me and a friend and asked him to come to the foyer of the club, he thought he had 'got off' with me. I took him to a bouncer and asked him to explain why he thought it was ok to do what he did. He didnt even deny it, said it was 'normal'. He was literally thrown out

Yes I think you have a point , I used to frequent the rock and indie clubs of Manchester ,people went more for the scene and the music ,where in non rock clubs ,they definitely felt more like pick up joints .